Why I Was Wrong About Socialism



hi everybody its defend molyneux from freedomain radio hope you're doing well so we got a question from Diogo he says first I get why you can't stand communism because of dictatorship and what's wrong with socialism you literally said that you were a socialist during your youth what turned you away from it I supposed it wasn't liberalism so what was it secondly what's wrong with ideology well I think these two questions are kind of wanted the same so yes when I was younger I was a socialist and I was also Christian and lots of things have evolved in my thinking on the coming up to a half century time that I've been pushing out some carbon dioxide so the reason why this is an interesting question I'm is twofold one is the content the other is the form what turned you away from socialism that is um a very interesting question to get in a philosophy show and let me put it to you a you say well you used to be into an earth-centered model of the solar system you know the Earth's in the middle and all the planets and all that go around what Oh human race turned you away from the earth centered model of the solar system and the answer would be it was wrong I learned more we learned better someone who comes to socialism I don't want to get into all of the reasons why because that would be very long show but fundamentally when it comes to what's in your brain a very relaxing and wonderful experience to go through is to recognize that for pretty much everything of particular importance particularly moral importance everything that's in your mind it's not up to you it's not up to you whether the Sun is the center of the solar system it's not up to you whether a gas expands when heated it's not up to you whether you can fly or fall if you jump from a war it is not up to you you must accept and surrender your judgment to that which is and that really is the fundamental purpose of philosophy philosophy is about helping you differentiate that which you can choose and that which you cannot choose right whether the Sun is the center of the solar system it's not a choice you don't flip a coin it's not how you feel that morning it's not whether a cool guy told you it's not whether some pretty girl believes it okay maybe that one but it's not up to you it's not up to you what you want to do with your life okay that's up to you maybe the kind of magic or music that you like yeah that can kind of be up to you you can expose yourself to different music you can pursue different artists and so on which book you're going to read next whether you want to watch the show these are all up to you but when it comes to things outside your consciousness things that are outside your mere personal emotional preferences such as what you want to do with your life if you want to be a fireman or if you want to be a painter or if you want to be a programmer or if you want to be a philosopher these are not moral choices these are choices to do with aesthetic preferences perhaps balance with a little bit of natural skill set and and abilities and so on these are not moral choices and they're important to you they're just not that important to the world as a whole just you know not trying to be mean it's just you know whether you become a fireman or a programmer the world is not going to turn on that but whether you are a good or a bad person and the degree to which you are willing to surrender your ego to that which is well that matters in the world a lot more than your choice of profession and recognizing the difference between what you can reasonably choose and what you cannot reasonably choose foundation I've been talking about this for my guests were coming on for ten years in this philosophy conversation in this philosophy shots things you can choose there's things you catch you know that old prayer god grant me the the serenity to accept the things I cannot change the courage to change I think the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference and it's a very you know obviously we don't want them at a physical deity element to it but this is very important for any kind of rational philosophy and so it wasn't like well I just turned away from socialism because I don't know I became an entrepreneur I made a little bit of money I a socialist woman broke my heart yeah these aren't things that would have any philosophical content why did I turn away from socialism because it's irrational socialism is the equivalent of putting the earth at the center of the solar system it may explain a few things if you look at it in a certain way but the errors accumulate the problems accumulate so much that you can't sustain it and this is not fundamentally about socialism versus property rights or anything like that but you can't just create arbitrary categories in philosophy I mean you can't you can't create arbitrary categories in any rational discipline because the whole point of rational is there's got to be a reason for your categories right so in biology you can't just start creating arbitrary categories and throw cold-blooded animals into the mammal bucket kiss one of the definitions of the metal bucket is warm-blooded don't get me started on the Platypus and egg laying people apparently that's different but you just you can't create arbitrary categories you can't say that something is both a gas and a solid in exactly the same circumstances yeah okay it can go from a gas to a liquid if it gets cold enough or whatever about you just you can't create arbitrary distinctions even where there may be some distinctions right so there's lizards as a category there are different species of lizards as a category because they have biological genetic differences but there's no such thing as a green chameleon followed by a blue chameleon if you take it from a green surface and put it on the blue surface these aren't different species that's just what chameleons do in terms of changing their colors so refusing to grant to your thinking arbitrary distinctions is foundational to growing up and and being wise and being thoughtful and the wonderful thing is it offloads a huge amount of processing right philosophy is like the GPU the graphics processing unit for your video game it offloads a lot of processing onto something else so when it comes to what is virtuous what is right what is true what is good what should I how should i promote virtue and what is virtue the wonderful thing is this not up to you it's not up to you it's not up to me it's not up to any individual person in the same way that the Sun being the center of the solar system is not up to Copernicus it's not up to up to Tycho Brahe he it's not up to the Pope it's not up to anyone it's just what is tripped by this factual what is real and so once you take the megalomaniacal will out of your approach to truth in other words goodness must be willed and ended the sentimentality and quote concern for the poor or whatever it is that defines your approach to social organization what is nice what solves appears to solve problems in the short run what is pragmatic what is the greatest good for the greatest number that's all subjective nonsense we don't say well the choice as to whether the sun of the earth is at the center of the solar system is judged by that which is best for society that which seems to solve problems in the short run that which makes me feel better or that which is the greatest good for the greatest number we can put all of that aside ah that is the great epiphany a philosophy can put all that aside don't have to will it don't have to try and convince it don't have to go chasing data down that in the confirmation bias supports my prior prejudices I don't have to deal with sentimentality I don't have to deal with any of that what is consistent and I mean there's so much that's wrong with socialism but you know there's very very briefly whether the steps that led me to reject it as as an earth-centered model of the solar system was basically um we own ourselves and we own the effects of our actions you can't have a debate with anyone you can't even have a conversation with anyone without accepting those two basic realities we own ourselves and we are responsible for the facts of our actions right that's why if a guy kills a woman he owns the murder he is responsible for the murder and you punish him not just his hands or his fingerprints or his dog or the lamppost at front of his house he is in control of himself and he is responsible for the effects of his actions this is true whether he creates a murder or creates crops or a house or some piece of property so we own ourselves and we are responsible for the effects of our actions and nobody can deny that to you I mean they can try but they're just being ridiculous because they are using their own self control the control over their own body to create an argument that they are responsible for opposing an argument that you used your body to create and to expostulate which you are responsible for so you simply can't possibly reject the idea of self-ownership and being responsible for the effects of your actions you can do em you can do anything you want it's just wrong it's a tube you can say that two and two make five is wrong so we own our own bodies and we own the effects of our actions now nobody says that if you plant one flower on your property that that's your flower but if you plant ten flowers well after nine it's not your property that's creating an arbitrary distinction the volume or degree or size of property ownership is immaterial to property rights property rights on like solid if you have one toothbrush but if you have three toothbrushes you're stealing from someone who deserves or once or needs a toothbrush so this basic reality and it's not up to me it's not up to me this is just basic philosophical rational empirical consistency nobody says well if you kill one person you're a murderer but if you kill ten people you're a saint right I mean assuming it's just murder so if you steal one candy bar you're a shoplifter if you steal a million candy bars your grand theft larceny or whatever it would be and so it's not up to me the degree to which property rights are valid it's not my choice it's not well okay but after a certain amount of money it's stealing for the port like that's just not part of a philosophical conversation property rights are valid and as a principal you can't create arbitrary distinctions so socialism of course about socializing the means of production which means factories that people have worked very hard to create get stolen from them by some state apparatus and turned over to the workers for some collective management and so on now of course you could say well this is nice this is good this is bad this is then again with more economic productivity is fair to the workers there's more equal distribution of blahdy blahdy blah but it's all nonsense because that's all is it good or bad for society if the Sun is the center of the solar system doesn't matter doesn't matter whether it's good or bad for society we pursue the facts we pursue the facts is it good or bad for society that reptiles are cold-blooded I mean that would be an incomprehensible question is it good or bad for society that two and two make four and that lead is heavier than air doesn't matter so the reality is that self ownership and owning the effects of one's actions have no upward limit because that would be to create an arbitrary distinction that's like saying one lizard is cold-blooded five lizards are cold-blooded but ten lizards are not Ryan doesn't matter if you're talking about some individual thing doesn't matter the extent or degree of it at all this is not like some emergent property called the opposite of property rights if you have too much property right that's sort of the graduated income tax idea where if you have more property you must pay more this is not how X works right slavery is immoral it doesn't matter if you have one person in the hold of a ship or a thousand people in the hold of a ship it's just immoral multiplying immoralities does not suddenly produce morality multiplying property does not eventually justify eft it's not up to me it's not up to you these are just philosophical realities now once you recognize that there's no foundational difference between the toothbrush and a factory then you cannot have opposing property rights for a toothbrush then to a factory you can't say well you if I steal your toothbrush a bad guy but if I come along and steal your factory for the sake of the workers I'm suddenly a moral agent of class warfare this is all just nonsense it's an arbitrary distinction no fundamental difference between a toothbrush and a factory they're both property that people work to create and there's collaboration cooperation competition doesn't really matter as long as it's voluntary trade that has produced the effective property it's not up to you so this idea is like whoa what mysterious thing turns you against socialism well what mysterious thing turns sensible people away from creationism in towards evolution well it's valid it's true you know what you know did did someone who believed in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus really break your heart I mean when you were younger you believed in the Tooth Fairy you believed in Santa Claus what happened what turned you against these things it's like well nothing I just I just grew up and stopped using arbitrary distinctions and stopped creating imaginary categories of magical opposition based on inconsequential things like volume I mean mass has the property called gravity and the more mass the more gravity and it's not like you go over a certain amount of mass and gravity reverses itself I mean just the way it is and so it's not a choice now ideology is the second part of your question ideology is that which creates arbitrary categories right it's that's just the way it is it's an arbitrary category so ideology says well you know the moment somebody has a factory we should steal it from them and give it to the workers why would you steal his kidney and give it to someone even if that person really wanted the kidney well no there are people out there who were blind and if you got Joe socialist eyeball pluck her out there with a spork you could transfer one of my eyes to the person who was blind and then he would have one eye and I would have one eye it would we be arguably better off I don't know but it's wrong to pull a full on King Lear Gloucester and out file jelly my eye with a spork sorry not up to me it's not up to you that's wrong and there's no fundamental difference between a kidney in a factory between an eyeball and a toothbrush they are both aspects of self ownership that you have worked to create or maintain so there's just this relaxation you offload the decision making to philosophy and it no longer is a matter of will where you're trying to balance some social outcome and nag and negotiate with people and so on it's lighten up sorry it's wrong it's wrong I don't care if it feels like agricultural productivity is higher in the sixteenth century if you have slaves it's wrong it doesn't matter what other complications ensue because of that and life gets so much simpler when you offload moral decision-making to philosophy it's a wonderful thing okay admittedly it puts you smack-dab face at high speed sometimes into the rough brick wall of socialist and social ideology but when you unite your mind with reality and you offload the decision-making about fundamentally important issues like ethics on to philosophy it puts you in direct collision with the ideology and prejudice and hysteria of society well that's okay you know people who accepted that the Sun was the center of the solar system ran into some ideologies of their time particularly theologies where the Bible says the earth is fixed and does not move and so on well you know that's just the natural a conflict between superstition and philosophy between irrationality and rationality between ideology and empiricism so offload things onto philosophy and your life is fully clear and you have wonderful principles that are stable and great nature to be commanded must obey it must be obeyed and virtue to be achieved must be surrendered to philosophy and taken out of the realm of personal preference so that's why and did this happen in a wide variety of spheres and fields with me and it's a relaxing and one wonderful place to be with again the exception being that for a time it will put you as a rational thinker in conflict with the ideologues and Sophists and propagandize errs off your age but I like that




Comments
  1. Says the man covered by Canadian universal healthcare. Pure socialism is garbage. A balance with democratic socialism with a healthy dose of capitalism is the key. What's really missing from this elongated diatribe is power. The more property you have the more power you have. A toothbrush and factory have no equivalency other than the fact that they are both property. However a factory has power over other peoples lives. Property power and hierarchy go together.

  2. Those who have been lied to by the left about socialism, have not been exposed to it. Once they have experienced it, you will see how bad it is… Go to a third world country or ask people from there.

  3. Was Robinhood a socialist? Does atheism mean there are no standards for good or evil or is that a contrived notion we are choosing to ascribe to through fear? Fear of what? What is the REAL morality code and why?

  4. I remember the fall of the Berlin wall. I'm 40 .most these younger people don't remember anything of the cold war.

  5. This is a little too much for my mentality of understanding what ur “ trying” to explain. I just don’t believe in socialism because of the way I’ve seen it not work the way we want it to. Or it does work the way the socialist want it to

  6. you ramble alot and none of it is relevant to socialism. and if those are the reasons you stopped then i have nothing to say to what was 18 minutes of gibberish

  7. So true! Socialism sells fantasies of a utopian world!
    Capitalism deals with the realities of human nature and works within them!

  8. Between birth and indoctrination we all were socialistic inclusive of everyone else. It was only after those people around us who were propped up as authoritarians did prejudice rear it's ugly face.

  9. Ohhh…. Stefan! I dislike the things you pinned your arguments on……I agree with your philosophical thinking but YOU and OTHERS have not PROVEN heliocentricity or geocentricity…….and it colors my respect for your views, alas!

  10. Not seeing some flee(if any?) to the socialists paradise's around the world. Where are they?

  11. The crackkka can't exist in peace in ANY societal system so you folks are just wasting time here. Systems are not inherently "evil" by nature unless the very policies of the system are "evil" like in the system of white supremacy which is what Amerikkka and just about ALL of the world exists in. NO country in the world that is affected in ANY way by the white collective can be CORRECTLY called a democracy. Black people existed in societies for HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of years(BEFORE creating white people) that had MANY socialist and communist-like principles and policies and they lived well and in relative PEACE. THIS is the TRUE history, not likely to be found in crackkka publications.

    But the truth is this: It turns out that melanin is responsible for a WHOLE lot more than JUST protecting us from the harmful rays of the Sun. It also fortifies the pineal gland which WE have LONG known to be connected to our "third eye" which has to do with our connection to the Divine Creator and spirituality in general. A LACK of melanin causes the pineal gland to calcify which renders it incapable of performing it's more "esoteric" functions. Simply put, it causes the melanin-deficient Caucasian to be devoid of compassion, mercy, or concern of ANY other species of life that are not like them. So the Caucasian generally thrives by the "Pull yourself up by your own boot straps" creed as they don't even care if their OWN survive or not. This can be evidenced be the fact that the top 1%(which consists PRIMARILY of old, white males) that control the society, ROUTINELY throw their OWN people under the bus DAILY. Trump just shutdown the government for over a month affecting the security of HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of his OWN people and he could not possibly have cared any LESS than he did by doing it. He would stop people from getting food aid(SNAP) EVEN though his OWN people are the BIGGEST recipients of the aid. In the absence of people of color to be violent and Satanic towards, whites will find OTHER differences in each other and go to war based on THAT premise(religion, wealth, etc.)

    But the melanin-infused people of color on the planet thrive in a system of HELPING each other to survive the dangers of the world. To us, there's no such thing as an "independent" person because WE see that NOBODY is able to survive on their own in this world from BIRTH to DEATH and that the "independent" human is a myth. EACH of us are in FULL awareness of how many times our family members or friends or STRANGERS helped us out in some dire situation, so we KNOW that we must work TOGETHER to survive nature.

    But the fact of the matter is this: Whites are going to be killing SOME species of life wholesale no matter WHERE they exist. And regardless to whatever system they may be CLASSIFYING their society, it's REALLY only a masking of the system of WHITE SUPREMACY.

  12. ..`We are in our life and death struggle for this Republic!
     
    ..`One should never vote for a Democrat again!
     
     
    ..`People who "Work" for a living are Being Overwhelmed by Those Who "Vote" for a Living.'
    .
    America, sold out for Votes; agenda, power and control; The Leftist, liberals, constituents, deceivers, socialists, democrats have absolutely no respect for the laws of this land "Due Process" of the law, or this Constitution! devilishdemsdividingagain.organization
    .
    `along with a Select Number of Swamp Rat Republicans.
    .
    ..`From Freedom to the Killing Fields of Socialism.
    .
    ..Socialism is Not Compassionate!
     
     
    ..Socialism – Communism = Tyranny.  …all clothed in compassion! Under the disguise of: ..Everything is Free.   Human Suffering: `Try Socialism/Communism!
    .
    ..`Best Path To Prosperity "for all" and Sanity. ..`Continue Voting Republican! ..`Positive, Constructive, Conservative.    ..`Our strength is in our vote!
    .
    .. "Common Sense, Logic, Wisdom, Understanding and Knowledge; Matters!

  13. Bernie was part of that great bug out of NYC and head to Vermont in the 60's …Now Vermont is an aging state with the youth heading out to find Jobs …There's your Socialist model a empty state with in the next 20 years

  14. Socialism and communism are the children of the father of capitalism. And what a father is, such are the children. They both learned how to manipulate people and convince them that their social models are the best that exists and that there is no alternative. But it exist. The alternative is a illegitimate child, which is not influenced by father (capitalism) and his children (socialism and communism). This new child is ecohumanism. How the Ecohuman world works can be viewed by everyone in the online book "ANOTHER WORLD IS POSSIBLE" on the Ecohumanworld web site.

  15. Giving up on socialism is like giving up on making the world a better place. That's what it's all about.

  16. Waiwaiwaiwait!! Did you spent 18 minutes explaining that you disagree with the idea that workers should own the industry they work on? That took me less that a minute to write! Why do you have to surround your opinion with so much nothingness?
    That's a serious problem because it opens the door for misinterpretation. For example, at first I thought that you were disagreeing with the idea that there's no billionaire who hasn't made their fortune without extortion of some sorts, but that's just such a petty reason I couldn't believe it myself so I had to give it a second look.

  17. Unfortunately for you, the evidence supports Creationism rather than naturalistic evolution and the evidence keeps growing all the time.

  18. I much prefer capitalism rather than socialism. And not the capitalism that some people think capitalism is, where the government pays certain companies so they crush all their competition, creating no new better products, where the government screws around with the free market, destroying the concept of a free market (which I try to explain about 3 paragraphs down).

    Why should a doctor be paid as much as an employee at Target? The doctor has taken the risk to invest that much money into his life, and he has a very stressful job. If you decide that Walmart should pay people just because they have more money then them, so that people can remain being lazy, that doesn't make sense. If YOU worked really hard to earn a lot, and you were about to start settling down comfortably, satisfied with what you had done and someone started demand your money, wouldn't you be confused as to why you owe them? You aren't supposed to live off a minimum wage, if you're smart, you will try to do better in your job, so as to get more experience and prove to other employers that you are worth hiring. Don't make successful hard working people pay for your own unwillingness to get a better job or education. Even if you believe that rich people should pay you, you will run out of their money eventually. 100 men cannot fund the whole country.

    This isn't to say that everyone should keep all their money to themselves, charity is a nice thing, poorer people can benefit from that. But as soon as you make it their right to other people's money, it doesn't really work.

    One of the main points of capitalism is to let anyone and everyone have the opportunity to start their own business, which creates competition. To stay ahead and make more money, those businesses have to create better products, more efficient and cheaper products, from which the whole country benefits from (hence cars, planes, phones, computers, dishwashers…). If you remove that, nothing new and better will be produced.

    In capitalism, the more you learn, the better you get at your job, the more you will be paid. As I see it, people aren't supposed to live off of $10 an hour. That job is supposed to get you off the ground so to speak, and help you get better job experience, so other employers know that they can hire without accidentally wasting money on some slacker.

    The more you raise the minimum wage, the harder it will be to find a job, because employers hiring first time people, usually teenagers, won't know if hiring someone will be worth the risk to pay them $20 an hour or so (or even $10).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnbVu8QXCMY&t=385s

  19. What kind of government /economic system would you call this:
    1) A system with no taxes of any kind, except on the upper 1% and those taxes collected are literally burned in a bonfire.
    2) Pays retirees a minimum of the median income.
    3) This retirement system is nearly free for the government.
    4) Banks with zero interest and zero fees.
    5) All loans based upon a percentage of income, making the loans term adjustable. No foreclosures.
    6) Totally free medical, drugs, dental, eye care and hearing care with no insurance. No more than a 15 day waiting period.
    7) 100% total employment of the workforce at all times.
    8) Government has unlimited funding at zero interest from the banks.
    9) Inflation controlled by command of the government.
    10) Cities designed to be self-sufficient and nearly without pollution.

  20. 15:07 "the moment someone has a factory, we should steal it from them and give it to the workers."

    No, man. You're missing the point. One man, or one group claiming they own the rights to profits because of a piece of contractual agreement they leveraged because the workers who were covertly coerced into doing this because of historical preconditions (due to an absence of various privileges, life choices, etc of various origins) does not give them the moral right to not give them a share of the earnings. The workers should ride or die with the company, but they only slowly die because of current labor-employer disputes which historically weigh heavily in favor of the latter. Right now, they only subsist as an indebted and very much actually enslaved dependent on a company that has less than no regard for them. The rhetoric is that you don't have to ascribe to the contractual agreement, but this is clearly a joke with any nuanced analysis. You don't really have a choice if you want to function in the world, for example, a man with a family to support in his home town does not have the choice when there is only a handful of options for his work. Or a young person with no real ties has no reason to submit to such a thing, so we millennials become a generation of nomadic, cynical narcissists. And it's worse than that here in America, where the vast majority of middle america has been abandoned by outsourced labor as a result of amoral, disconnected big business heads, who by all appearances you want to give more leeway to continue to degrade people not only here, but abroad as well. They do this with the same mentality as you, that they are doing some sacrifice that is necessary to take humanity to a higher place. It is literally William Golding's The Spire. But worse on their part, they have a completely disproportionate number of narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths exactly because these are deviants fostered by a morally bankrupt society and who have an innate attraction to positions of power and self-serving.

    Look at what's happening as it is and not as some necessary suffering. Ironically, you speak about arbitrary distinctions, but you fail to recognize this one in yourself. Right after you speak on this, you say it's about growing up. Then continue with this euphoric release that it's a huge unloading of these burdenous emotions and thoughts. Well, that's you absolving yourself from your complicitness in a morally bankrupt system, a hallmark of a judeochristian martyr complex. You're still complicit. Watch this video, and tell me if your economic principles and foundations hold a moral argument in favor of the breadwinners here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwciNb-BZIk

    In the face of the villagers who AREN'T ignorant, who are trying to confront these economic vampires who gave them literally 50$ for their potential billions. Who were blocked from intervention by the military police they bribed. One of these men literally died for his blind greed, and he was proudly championing his cognitive dissonance at the end of the documentary in the same way you are this profiteering mechanism. This is actual ancient colonialism happening on camera in 2018.

    Undoubtedly, it has been proven with data that economic growth in any capacity is a good for the world. But to take that information at face value in these ways and allow some places to rot while certain, very select and selectively mentally deranged men flourish is a trumping of human rights which stagnates humanity as a whole, not because of any data-driven point, but because of the actual suffering left behind. Africa is the old historical example. SE Asia the more recent. And it will become the middle east, and soon after, it will be YOU. HERE. It's already happening. Go to the fucking hood, you foolish coward, and try to say what you are. It's not their ignorance or low IQ, it's yours. The philosopher with absolutely 0 philosophical cred. Get off the web, dude, your morally skewed ignorance is becoming a pariah on society.

  21. The insanity about Socialism and Communism is only exceeded by the vast, seeming endless disinformation campaigns defending the socialized means of production under Monopoly Capitalism.
    Do you think? Notice I have spoken about the socialization of the means of production under Monopoly Capitalism."
    Since Roman times the socialism of the means of production has meant little more than the organization of the means of production under the power of the ruling slave holding class, likewise the same under the powers of the modern slaveholders.
    So — was this type of organization ever called "socialism"? Of course not.
    Nor is the same organization of means of production in modern and post modern stages, ever called "so cialism". Why? Do you expect the capitalist monopolists to undercut themselves by using a loaded term like "socialism of the means of production?"
    You might as well expect a Feminist to decry the slaughter of 60 million fetuses due to abortions.

  22. Socialism is when the workers own the business they work in. It's pretty simple. There's no need for this complicated word salad. If you want to own your own business and hire people to work for you, then you can. If a group of people want to start their own business, and work for themselves, then they can. You're pushing a business model on every one else and this is not freedom.

  23. 4:53: "Socialism is irrational. Socialism is the equivalent of putting the Earth in the centre of the Solar System". Great you cleared that up, because until now I thought that Ayn Rand orbited Earth – now I know that it is the other way around. Thanks! 14:10: "What made you stop believing in Santa Claus? – nothing, I just grew up". So, applying that analogy to Socialism, that would mean that only children believe in socialism and then they grow up to embrace capitalism. If that is true, then don't worry anymore – because then socialism is just a kindergarten phenomenon. So, in your mind, which countries are still in daycare? which countries haven't yet progressed from lollypops to drugs, tobacco and firearms?

  24. If the Workers created an organization for shared profit, and the State arbitrarily took over the means of production and distributed the profits to the elite, how would the Workers feel?

    Morally relevant?…Ethically revelant?

  25. Tend to like most of stefans stuff and i am not a scocialist, but this was silly and convoluted. Support of any political or economic system is a value judgement based on what you think of the good or bad aspects or results of the system, and can be robustly debated , but this is not the same as the truths of the laws of nature and physics.

  26. If you off-load the burden of making moral and ethical choices to 'philosophy' then you encourage people to stop thinking and adopt the moral argument of a particular philosophy. What happens when that philosophy (e.g. socialism) determines it is moral to seize the means of production? It seems you've backed into a corner with this assertion. Or perhaps I do not understand your argument.

  27. What turns 'sensible' people away from creationism to evolution? "…because it's true…" citation and proof, please. Otherwise you are a hypocrite when you demand the same of creationists that offer 'hear and believe' as their only argument.

  28. I got first to the moon. I own the whole moon and all future industries that will be built there. It is an arbitrary category to say that future inhabitants of the moon need to have property rights to some parts of the moon. That's why all people that will ever live in the moon and work for my Moon Industries have no right to take them from me. I built them with my hands, and the help of millions of people who voluntarily traded their labor with me, so they cannot claim any rights other than the money I paid them. I am the individual, the one that had the bright idea of colonizing the moon, the one that took the initiative, therefore I am the sole owner of the Moon.

    Sincerely,

    A conservative.

  29. Socialism has failed in every country who tried it. Modern day example is Venezuela. They adopted socialism, and now their country is a disaster. Mass poverty and starvation.

  30. I think Socialism can work, but without the awareness of being a Nation, you can’t make it work. It did work in Germany a long while back. Otto von Bismarck did alright, and Hitler from 1933 to 1939 was actually doing well, but the peace offers didn’t work. If you want proof, you can look into the current situation where Germany is still occupied land, because they never had the offers of peace accepted after world war 1…..
    But in a way to say Socialism doesn’t work, I will have to agree in a way, socialism doesn’t work alone. It is a way to indeed become poor if you don’t have a limit to who’s participating.

  31. A proper philosopher would ask questions about the validity of the concept of property (pun intended). One way to go about this is to look at the animal kingdom. Take rabbits, for instance. Do rabbits have to pay for their carrots? No, they don't and every rabbit gets a piece of the pie, so to speak, by virtue of being born and alive.
    We humans have made different arrangements. Historically, fights over land, food and other resources have caused a lot of warfare. One of the advantages of accepting the notion of property is that it brings more peaceful conditions. That's a more practical implication than it is a moral one. Morally, the idea of property can have serious downsides as well. What if, for instance, by a stroke of fate, all the water in the world came into the hands of an elite? And suppose the rest of the world was dying? Should we call the poor sods who try to get to the water thieves? Or should we call the elite who withholds water from the rest murderers? And is being a murderer better than being a thief? Questions, questions.

  32. Socialism isn't meant to explain things. Undiluted socialism has adverse effects on society, but so has capitalism. In the USA many people cannot afford healthcare and they die of diseases that can be cured. Many people have 2 jobs and barely survive. Contrast that with a country like the Netherlands where healthcare is accessible and minimum wages ensure that poverty rates are much lower than in the USA. Whether you call this socialism is a moot point – what matters is in what world we want to live.
    Of course some voices on the right say that the Dutch system isn't sustainable.We'll see. If it isn't, at least for a few decades a few million people have been able to lead a great life.

  33. Lived through Communism and through socialism. It does not work.

    In a Communist society private property, land ownership, capital is owned by the state, in fact it is taken by force.  If you do not want to give it up willfully you and your family either gets killed or sent to labour camp.  People that do not agree with Marxists and voice their opinion are sent to jail and become political  prisoners.  Free speech is shut down because the centralized government does not want opposition.  Farmers are forced to give up their land and forced to work in collectives to earn a living.  If they grow their own crops  on their land without informing the government you go to jail.  So this system there is no incentive to work hard and innovate because you will still make the same amount than those who slack off.  That is why most products made under communism are of very poor quality.  Now these delusional young people say that all former socialists experiments failed because of dictatorship.  Can't you see that dictatorship and a centralized system goes hand in hand?  How do you think the government takes over people's business, land and money to redistribute it?  Nobody's will give this up willingly so they have to take it by force.  That Is dictatorship!  So you see your version of socialism  will not be different.  People a lot smarter than you have tried it and it always led to a disaster. 
     Capitalism on the other hand encourages innovation, hard work and pursuit of each individual's happiness; you are free to do what you want with your life to make your life better.  How hard you work and how committed you are  to succeed has a direct bearing on how successful you will be.  It is not easy but eventually you will succeed or the very least make a decent living.  Sure not everyone becomes a millionaire but your life is a lot better than in a system where your success, wealth and livelihood is capped by the state.
    Socialists in North America should move to a socialist country before buying into one of the biggest tragedies of the 20th Century.

  34. Many young people are in favor of socialist systems. My hope is this current violent far left Socialist PC Culture will grow out of these current problems like past generations 🙏

  35. Taking money out of your wallet by Government Force is immoral. Whatever the Govenment tries to accomplish beyond the security of our property and our lives is done thru immoral means. I guess the next step would be to take your money at the point of a machine gun (Totalitarianism). The default position for many (The Politics of Envy) is that wealthy people aquire their money thru immoral means….so therefore they should be heavily taxed??? Socialism is a immoral endeavor.

  36. Why can't these abstract intellectuals ever just answer a question succinctly?
    10 minutes and 59 tangents later…..

  37. You can create arbitrary arguments . That is not a given . You don't decide. You are corporate You profit from low corporate tax . Greed ruins society.

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