Socialism Does NOT Work | Daniel Hannan | Oxford Union



mr. president ladies gentlemen who said this I am a socialist and a very different kind of socialist from your rich friend count reventlow it was 1930 and the speaker was a rising german politician called adolf hitler in 1930 the contention that fascism had emerged out of socialism was accepted across the board it was an observed historical fact fascists marched under red banners on may day their leaders believed in high tariffs in workers control all factories in a moment in a common production of and distribution and and exchanges we just had gone yeah and there was a reason why and present a chance as we face it is absolutely true that socialists of the national and Leninist varieties were bitterly opposed they were fishing in the same pool they were competing for the same kind of voter though one kind of person that neither brand of socialist had any time for was the classical liberal what they called the decadent anglo-saxon bourgeois capitalist why because theirs was an ideology that elevated coercion over freedom now why do I begin with this Godwin's law high-stake opening two reasons first of all as a corrective as a corrective to the self-righteousness that we've already started hearing where people who claim to be socialist then start claiming credit for everything from the extension of the franchise to the extension of universal education but my real point is this one socialism rests on compulsion it's defining ethic is not equality but coercion socialism and capitalism are matrices they are economic systems within which people can be generous or greedy they can be selfish or altruistic human nature comes whether from our genes or from our maker it isn't something that's created by an economic system but what's unique about socialism is the readiness of the state to deploy coercive force now we've evolved a great vocabulary to describe this we talk about things like asking people to pay a bit more tax right see what happens if they choose not to behind all that polite sounding asking them to pay their share to contribute is the threat of prison now of course there are some occasions where any society will need to rely on coercive force on incarceration there are some taxes that are necessary in any system we all accept that but their use of coercive and ultimately lethal force by the state is its most awesome and awful power we should tilt the balance as far as we can to Liberty before you say know that power should be used as the prayer-book says of marriage reverently discreetly advisedly soberly the idea that as we just heard from Katie that those of us on this side are in favor of dog-eat-dog if by dog-eat-dog you mean the desire for material improvement that is a fundamental in human nature under all systems you had it under the communist regimes you had it under feudal regimes but what is unique about capitalism is that it harnessed that ambition to a socially useful end under every other system devised by human intelligence a group of people sat on top and the way to get rich was to suck up to those in power whether they were kings or bishops or commissar we uniquely in this country and we then exported it came up with a system where you satisfied your ambition by serving the rest of your fellow citizens under the law we channels that desire for self-improvement in a socially productive way and that's why socialist countries are not just less wealthy than capitalist ones but less free that's the categorical difference between East Germany and West Germany between North Korea and South Korea it's not just that socialism doesn't work in the sense that it fails to provide material advance it doesn't work in that it takes away human dignity and civil rights above all our freedom to make choices as autonomous individuals yes sir your daily bread to not be able to go to we or school to not have any opportunities to develop yourself as a young person or even as an adult well sure I mean let's leave aside whether you mean positive or negative freedom if you want those opportunities if you want decent schools if you want to rise in living standards would you go to North Korea or South Korea would you look at socialism to provide it or would you look at the free market that's an interesting thing Karl Marx who of course invented the thing we let's not gloss over that fact Karl Marx thought that as time went by it would become more liberal that he could take the constraints off that people wouldn't need to be told what to do and like every other prediction that Karl Marx made that was the opposite of the truth is extraordinary Marxists uniquely claimed that theirs is a scientific rather than a political doctrine they claim that their truths are empirical they're not just opinions and yet every single forecast that Marx made that there would be more and more unemployment under capitalism there'd be a smaller group of oligarchs and a larger group of proletariat every single one of them turned out to be the opposite of the truth I want to tackle one other this I do yes of course I have I have a pleasure I have the pleasure like a number of people here are studying at an old University where we were obliged to read these things if we did a history degree this is going to have to be my last one as was in sixties and seventies which of d66 averages which I include the best one I'm not sure this is a point of information thank you no we're using thank you we're using it yes yes yes we're using the dictionary definition that was helpfully put before the house by my colleague Tony Daniel's when he when he explained what socialism means is the collective or state ownership of the means of production distribution and exchange now that you know if you have a quarrel with the authors of the Oxford English Dictionary that's fine but that seems to me a perfectly neutral definition to be using in this debate now I want to take on the idea thank you I would I want to tackle this idea because it runs through the debate that somehow on this side we are more materialistic greedier less humane that we have less by way of fellow-feeling and sympathy than those on the other side if you can trust socialist and capitalist economies you see precious little evidence of that but for what it's worth I am a conservative politician I spend a lot of my time with libertarians conservatives and free marketers of every stripe I can tell you hand on heart I have never met anyone who derives more pleasure from a healthy bank balance than from listening to Beethoven or playing with his children or going for a walk in the country but what is it that enables us to do those things it's economic progress the fact that you have a dishwasher and don't have to spend all your time doing the washing by hand means you can go for that walk in the country the fact that you've got a car and don't have to queue up at the tram station means you have more time to listen to Beethoven's symphonies the fact that you don't have to spend six weeks working just to feed your children means you can spend the weekend playing with them and where did those economic advances come from from the system that unlocked the inventiveness of a creative people that tapped into the unlimited potential of human innovation and that raised our species to a standard of living that a couple of generations ago would have been unimaginable now that has happened for about a billion people in the world those of us who can afford the car those of us who can afford the dish works there are six billion people I'm sorry I can get him any more time there are six billion people who cannot afford the cars and the dishwashers but they will they will as free exchange and specialization and comparative advantage run their course raising people to a higher and higher standard of living unless we go down the road of Cuba or Zimbabwe or any other socialist country because it's mostly listen it doesn't work don't make the mistake of judging socialism as a textbook theory but judging capitalism by its necessarily imperfect outcomes judge like with like in the real world you find me a functioning socialist country that has delivered more than a free market alternative now I'm going to finish with this point Katy in her speech cited a number of the great heroes of our indigenous radical tradition and among them are some of the greatest heroes who have lived or argued in any language she cited the Levellers three of whom fell in Burford Church in an act of cold-blooded execution which disturbed even the morbid sensibilities of mid 17th century England what was it that the Levellers those farsighted heroic men who looked forward to the universal franchise who looked forward to something that we would now recognize as constitutional Liberty and democracy under the rule of law what was it that they believed what was the starting point of their ideology what was it that Richard Overton argued for in his arrow against all tyrants self-ownership he began by saying I own my mind I own my body and if I am free to trade the products of my own labour then without the intervention of prelate or princes then I will be fulfilled and happy these were proto libertarians they were radicals all right but they understood that freedom was linked as they constantly said in the very paper that Katy quoted that liberty and propriety ownership and freedom were inextricably linked let me close with some words of their great contemporary another libertarian hero John Milton capitalism this thing that raised our species developed in some of the Italian northern city-states was then refined by the Dutch but it was in this country that it reached its fullest flower and was explore addressing the lords and Commons in 1644 Milton said remember what nation it is where of er a nation not slow and dull but quick and piercing of wit we got the whole thing going and we ended slavery and we exported property rights and we exported the rule of law and it was all based on raising the individual above the state rather than the other way around when you walk out of the doors tonight booked for freedom and remember what nation it is where of you you




Comments
  1. Denmark voted happiest place on earth year after year.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/welcome-to-the-happiest-country-on-earth/

  2. the best thing is a mix of capitalism with limits and socialism where it matters. there is no a panacea.

  3. Daniel Hannan should be cloned 10,000 times to replace every retrograde socialist in our universities who are busily indoctrinated every student as we speak.

  4. A very common misconception is that communism is a system that needs to be impossed to stop capitalism, its not like that, communism is a system that should follow after capitalism is fully developed and going down the toilet after it has worn itself out, destroyed the enviroment, generated enough exclusion and wasted most of the resourses, making necessary a central planification. A planned economy which will be more austere and less wasteful in resourses.
    Marx, in fact, WANTED capitalism to fully develop itself first in order for communism to be successful. The revolution is only there to help overthrown capitalism when its dying. Similar to what happened in Europe when revolutions helped to overthrow the dying monarchies. But I guess people cant be bothered to read what Marx was actually saying. Reading is hard, isnt it?

  5. incredible someone have to explain to english people, comunism dosen't work … it means to me, engilsh people is no worried about fredom and slaverist states

  6. "Toff, toff, toff, well I never!" There's something about an English accent that makes evil sound right and fair.

  7. Individual above the state? Tell that to an American who has cancer but cannot afford the treatment.

  8. Economic progress? It would never happen if we create an absolute Laissez-faire economy. It self-destructs. Social democracy protects the buying power of the masses and thus protects capitalism from self-destructing.

  9. He is wrong again about the choice between North Korea and South Korea. South Korea is a social democratic state, the type British socialism is. He keeps bringing in Stalinist type socialism when Labour Party socialism is in fact social democratic or democratic socialism. It is totally different than Soviet Style and North Korean type. By confusing the two, he shows that his entire argument is based on false premises.

  10. His example of tax being a coercive force, is false, all capitalist countries impose tax and implement punitive laws to anybody that does not pay.

  11. The guy just lied. Socialism did not come out socialism. The fascists used the word socialism because at that time it was a fad. Socialism, with its universal humanism is diametrically opposed to fascism. He is wrong again when he says socialism rests on coercion. He lumps social democracy with Stalinist socialism due his ignorance of the theory. Social democracy is a different animal. It is nothing more than compassionate capitalism. Capitalism in production but socialism in distribution. Capitalism without socialist institutions does not work. Even the army and police are socialistic institutions. Infrastructure is created by the society and it benefits both the capitalists and non-capitalists.

  12. It's actually really simple. Marx predicted that capitalist societies would naturally develop into socialist ones. Whether he understood why or not is beyond my knowledge of his theories. However, it is obvious – capitalism builds economies (and then goes nutty with inequality and the rich become a cancer, think online gambling companies, social media and the problems they cause), socialism then maintains economies, by focusing on human concerns. In a grander sense, the law is a complex ecosystem, in which there are a mix of capitalist and socialist influences. Developed nations are resisting the will of the majority for a fairer society because their unequal rich are entrenched. Economic progress is to realise that once an economy is mature and efficient it needs to focus more on being humane and fair. In general people achieve success by exploiting others and/or innovating. Economic progress in the modern age should reward innovation and punish exploitation. This video shows the limits of debating between 2 extremes of thought that are not restrained by intelligence nor look forwards into the future. As someone famous once said, philosophy is just mental masturbation.

  13. The good old 'human nature' argument. Lmao
    Actually asshole baldy…..human nature is actually intrinsically communal unless like in hardcore capitalist market economies its been rearing psychopaths like thatchers 80's yuppies and eaton assholes.
    Baldy, lets talk about what education under communism was like. Better than the west, thats for sure!

  14. By ‘exported’, i assume he means ‘forced upon a lot of the world using slavery, extortion and slaughter’

  15. Simple fact is if everyone gets the same rewards regardless if they work or don't work no one will work if they do not get a reward financially for their own efforts. So if no one works society falls in chaos. Watch Corbyn during the debate he does not have the intelligence to understand what Hannan is saying. It's like watching a parent trying to explain to a 2 year old that its not a good idea to push your finger into a electric socket or to eat an excessive amount of sweets.

  16. Daniel Hannan is the master of verbal diarrhea. I thought you have to be brainy to get into Oxbridge.

  17. If you give a state monopoly power over all the important industries, it becomes treacherous; there are few powerful individuals left in society able to counter such strong state power, and not to mention state regulation always fails

  18. The crackkka can't exist in peace in ANY societal system so you folks are just wasting time here. Systems are not inherently "evil" by nature unless the very policies of the system are "evil" like in the system of white supremacy which is what Amerikkka and just about ALL of the world exists in. NO country in the world that is affected in ANY way by the white collective can be CORRECTLY called a democracy. Black people existed in societies for HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of years(BEFORE creating white people) that had MANY socialist and communist-like principles and policies and they lived well and in relative PEACE. THIS is the TRUE history, not likely to be found in crackkka publications.

    But the truth is this: It turns out that melanin is responsible for a WHOLE lot more than JUST protecting us from the harmful rays of the Sun. It also fortifies the pineal gland which WE have LONG known to be connected to our "third eye" which has to do with our connection to the Divine Creator and spirituality in general. A LACK of melanin causes the pineal gland to calcify which renders it incapable of performing it's more "esoteric" functions. Simply put, it causes the melanin-deficient Caucasian to be devoid of compassion, mercy, or concern of ANY other species of life that are not like them. So the Caucasian generally thrives by the "Pull yourself up by your own boot straps" creed as they don't even care if their OWN survive or not. This can be evidenced be the fact that the top 1%(which consists PRIMARILY of old, white males) that control the society, ROUTINELY throw their OWN people under the bus DAILY. Trump just shutdown the government for over a month affecting the security of HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of his OWN people and he could not possibly have cared any LESS than he did by doing it. He would stop people from getting food aid(SNAP) EVEN though his OWN people are the BIGGEST recipients of the aid. In the absence of people of color to be violent and Satanic towards, whites will find OTHER differences in each other and go to war based on THAT premise(religion, wealth, etc.)

    But the melanin-infused people of color on the planet thrive in a system of HELPING each other to survive the dangers of the world. To us, there's no such thing as an "independent" person because WE see that NOBODY is able to survive on their own in this world from BIRTH to DEATH and that the "independent" human is a myth. EACH of us are in FULL awareness of how many times our family members or friends or STRANGERS helped us out in some dire situation, so we KNOW that we must work TOGETHER to survive nature.

    But the fact of the matter is this: Whites are going to be killing SOME species of life wholesale no matter WHERE they exist. And regardless to whatever system they may be CLASSIFYING their society, it's REALLY only a masking of the system of WHITE SUPREMACY.

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