Religious Tolerance Shouldn’t Mean Accepting Lower Moral Standards


There’s a section within the left. I refer
to them as the regressive left and I want to clarify I don’t mean all of those on
the left. I mean a section that have come to the view for the sake of political correctness,
for the sake of tolerating what they believe is other cultures and respecting different
lifestyles. They have an inherent hesitation to challenge some of the bigotry that can
occur within minority communities. I mean at the end of the day if we truly subscribe
to liberal human rights values in their universality and the universal declaration of human rights
they apply not just in favor of minority communities but in some instances upon minority communities
too. And it’s what I call the racism of low expectations to lower those standards
when looking at a brown person if a brown person happens to express a level of misogyny,
chauvinism, bigotry or anti-Semitism and yet hold other white people to universal liberal
standards. The real victim of that double standard are the minority communities themselves
because by doing so we limit their horizons, we limit their own ceiling and expectations
as what they aspire to be where judging them is somehow that their culture is inherently
less civilized and of course that we are tolerating bigotry within communities and the first victims
of that bigotry happen to be those who are weakest from among those communities. And
that’s who I refer to as the minorities within the minority. The minorities within
the minority are every feminist Muslim, every gay Muslim, lesbian Muslim, every liberal
Muslim, every dissenting voice, ex-Muslims. And these are people who mainstream society
will judge because they have Muslim names and brown skin invariably. So they have to
suffer a lot of the discrimination that anyone else may suffer from mainstream society but
even within their own community and then further discriminated against because of course it
goes without saying that levels of tolerance towards to gays, and perhaps levels of anti-Semitism
and liberal values there are still many, many challenges when it comes to those values within
Muslim community. So they suffer from both ends and that’s why I say that if we truly
as liberals care for the weakest among us as any liberalist society should be judged
by. Then those who are the weakest among us I believe are the minorities within the minority
communities. It’s the emphasis on group rights and on
the identity of group rights rather than seeking out the individual within the groups and thereby
what happens is invariably those individuals within the groups, the minorities within the
minorities have a progressive struggle ahead of them. The group, you know, the Muslim community
for want of a better term doesn’t have a progressive struggle. It’s identifying itself
as a Muslim and for whatever reason good or bad currently the Muslim debate isn’t as
liberal, isn’t as committed to universal human rights values as I would like it to
be at least. So in protecting the group identity we end up reinforcing in liberal values because
we prioritize cultural tolerance over the progress and the advancement of liberalism
within minority communities. And that’s how they end up losing out on being allies.
Now I think that a true liberal would always prioritize individuals over the group, would
always prioritize heresy over orthodoxy, will always prioritize the dissenting voice over
the status quo. That’s what a true liberal should be looking for. Within the Muslim minority
context that means finding those voices while critical of their own culture and I find liberals
a very good when it comes to criticizing mainstream society being introspective about our own
foreign policy mistakes and rightly so. Yet there isn’t that expectation that a Muslim
can in turn be introspective about their own Muslim community into which they were born. And the other thing I think is very important
here we talk about credible voices, authentic voices. There’s an assumption, an orientalist
assumption again because of the racism of low expectations that the real Muslim, the
credible Muslim, the authentic Muslim is the conservative Muslim. And if you have a liberal
Muslim there’s almost this sniggering assumption that they’re not really a Muslim. They’re
just, you know, too Westernized. So they’re not a real Muslim voice. And I think I want
to draw an analogy here for liberals they’ll understand this. When it comes to self-identification
we are the at the cusp of a watershed moment with transgender rights both in America and
across the western world. And we know, we know it’s wrong to insist that somebody
born in a man’s body who identifies as a woman it’s wrong to insist in their face
that no, you’re a man whether you like it or not. No matter how you want to identify
yourself I’m going to call you a man against your own will and wishes because that’s
what I want to do. Likewise a Muslim who is a liberal and who happens to be gay, happens
to be lesbian, happens to be a feminist it’s not up to us to somehow invalidate their Muslim
experience. Their Muslim experience is as valid, as authentic and as credible as that
conservative Muslim who’s, you know a strict literalist Muslim. And so we have this – unfortunately
we have this tendency that a real credible Muslim voice is every regressive conservative
literalist Muslim voice out there. And we prop them up as the spokesman for the communities
and they are invariably men. And I think that that’s actually part of the mistake and
it comes as is born of orientalism, is born of an essentialization, a desire to reduce
Muslim culture to this caricature that it is this kind of, you know, Medieval culture
and then fantasize it in that way. And I think that’s incredibly sad and illiberal.




Comments
  1. Just another religious fool. He is trying very hard, I applaud him for it, but it is useless; he can try all he wants, but islam is no good. The koran is no good, no liberalism is written in the koran. In the end a muslim follows the koran, and the koran is a badly written stupid book; no good shall come from it. Never.

  2. He is very brave and gives us hope that there is actually modern Islamic thinkers arround
    Islam needs voices like this

  3. If a liberal prioritizes heresy over orthodoxy and a dissenting voice over the status quo, it's pretty obvious those values are incompatible at least with monotheist religions, the whole point being faithful obedience to the one true god. In my experience, religious liberals live pretty secular lifestyles, not practicing much while identifying with their religious community and believing in god. Question is, at which point are we really talking about a fully fledged culture rather than a religion. As for the crazies (conservatives) in the West, they're basically kept in check by secular constitutions.

    Sure, you can try to reform abrahamic religions at their core, and they have been, but such a reform as to make them anything liberal would have to be thorough, including the possibility of declaring a lot of objectionable texts as apocryphal and the reform of the actual structures of the institutions. The problem here, though, isn't so much wanting to do so, it's getting over the theological constraints. For instance, liberal morals are philosophical and applying them over a religion means making them precede god's morals. Bottom line, philosophy trumps theology, metaphysics shift.

    So yes, liberalism is religious heresy. Even right now, a liberal identifying with a religious community is perfectly normal, but I would question this person's theological perspective and religiosity, such as his or her attachment to the actual cult and its beliefs. Not that such people are any less ''authentic'' than any other group in their religion in their interpretation of the texts or in belonging to the community, just that they're less caught up in the religious element. In other words, their version of their religion, which certainly is of equal value compared to other versions, takes a more secular form; a liberal reading of the texts, a less religious one, but still a reading.

    Of course, there's the issue of the primacy of the individual in liberalism that can be problematic in a communitarian culture like Islam specifically, but that's a whole other story.

  4. There is no such thing as an 'authentic muslim', religion is a disease and no you do not have the right to hold irrational views about the world, it's the reason we have asylums.
    Religion is not a beautiful thing, it's a disease, a trojan horse, a psychological virus and if you're a sufferer of this affliction you should do the moral thing for the good of the species and lock yourself away somewhere until you die and take the disease with you like they used to do during times of plague.

  5. "Happens to be feminist"?? what are you smoking? being a feminist is not like being a man, a woman, gay, lesbian, black, white, brown, etc… You're acting like feminists are a vulnerable demographic?

  6. Moral standards..LMAO..that's halarious. Feom all of society in many ways of what you come to accept as culture/way of life…you lost morals a long time ago.

  7. Props to Maajid (pronouced like 'magic' except ending in a 'd'). I know he has an interesting dialogue with Sam Harris that's expository & not contentious. Maajid is working inside islam like Ayaan Hirsi Ali is working as an ex-muslim to change islam from within. Much of the world's population is seeing the curtain being pulled back to reveal the ugliness of humanity infected with religious beliefs as expressed by barbaric practices. “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” -Voltaire

  8. I by and large agree with the points made in this video. I also have a couple of points of disagreement.

    1) 3:52 I think Maajid's description of only accepting conservative Muslims as authentic Muslims is true for other conservatives (especially Christians, especially Biblical literalists). However, I think the dynamic is the opposite for the group he is critiquing: liberals. Some liberals will bend over backward insisting that only the liberal Muslims are authentic Muslims. The conservative and especially fundamentalist Muslims are, these liberals claim, perverting Islam for their own benefit.

    2) 3:12 Though it's relatively minor to the overall thrust of the video, I do not think a liberal will always prioritize the individual over the group. Not by a long shot. A big part of being liberal (at least in the American sense of the word) is understanding how individuals are treated based on their identifying as part of a group or their having some superficial characteristic (e.g. black skin) that causes others to place them in a group. You could say that heresy and dissenting voices will not be prioritized 100% of the time either, but those two will be pretty darn close to absolutes.

  9. Tolerance is not a vertu on its own. This is time to have judgement and to be intolerant when we have too. "No" is a nice word.

  10. The difference between "insisting" that a man who calls himself a woman is STILL a man, and accepting a Liberal Muslims position is a physical reality. The Liberal Muslim is so because of an idea, where as the transgender cannot change the physical reality of who they were born as. They can swap parts, but that will never change their physiology and what they were born as.

  11. Read the Quran: discrimination, sexual abuse, slavery, jihad, etc, etc, etc… that is the real Islam, and the same to Christianity and Judaism, religion is outdated in modern times.

  12. One thing that occurs to me is that multiculturalism is considered a post modern philosophy. Like all postmodern philosophies it is inherently very critical of classical liberalism. It is often critical of contemporary liberalism as well. I'm not necessarily saying that I agree with these criticisms. But the fact that so many of them exist on such a large scale, and the fact that so many of them are as reasonable as they are, would tell me that liberalism is not the end-all philosophy that its most zealous advocates would believe it to be. I consider it to be one of the best ideologies we have tried on a large scale yet. but I still see it as a stepping stone.

  13. Oh sir! Thank you for describing this better than I have been able. "The racism of lowered expectations." That's gonna help me provide context in some ongoing conversations in my life.

  14. this is amazing . I'm not a Muslim but I have been an immigrant in an European country . and I have been trying all my life to explain what this man as explained perfectly in 5 min. this sort of discrimination happens in
    all communities and it makes me hopeful to see that someone is paying attention to this. we need to stop placing groups and concepts and really see the other person , why is it so difficult ?

  15. Majid Nawaz so right! another example is, regressive liberals viciously attacks a christian  bakery owner for not wanting to bake a gay wedding cake, yet they allow imams to preach death for homosexuals in universities! LOL

  16. A regressive liberal will have no hesitation claiming that a christian man shot up an abortion clinic because of his intolerant religious beliefs, but that very same regressive liberal will search for whatever reason a muslim man shoots up a coffee shop — American foreign policy, exploitation of natural resources, Israel, colonialism, etc. — that is, any reason other than that muslim man's intolerant religious belief. This hypocrisy and inconsistency is exactly what Nawaz is talking about.

  17. I feel as though you can't just create aribitrary sub-categories when considering how to label people. Either you are something or you're not and changing what it means to be something to suit your values and preaching "tolerance" shouldn't be what we strive for nor does it automatically validate what you are. For example, If I were to label myself to be a "feminist Muslim" then that would be completely contradictory to what it means to be a Muslim. At that point I should probably consider not being Muslim and identifying myself as something different. Also the Quran, as well as Islamic culture, has a clear stance on where women sit in their society and therefore I can't call myself Muslim if I believe in women's rights. Not to mention that the Quran is a fairly conservative text but that's a whole different discussion.

  18. Everything you said is true, but the opposite is also true.
    Muslims who chooses a more conservative experience, bother no one and live their lives in a more orthodox fashion should have the freedom to do so as well.
    Any were, any place any time.

  19. Smart guy. The Ottoman empire was quite secular and tolerant. It is not Islam but fundamentalism of ALL religions that is the problem. This guy is nuanced in his opinions, I like him.

  20. Thank you for saying what I've been trying to say for a while. It works the same way with white racists as it does with these minority-loving progressives (you call the regressive). They love the idea of minorities because it can give them an opportunity to play the victim. A white racist would be harsher on a black man than a white man, either putting the black man at higher expectations than the norm, or putting the white man at lower than the norm. Especially with the former it can make the black man come out to be more intelligent and resilient (except in the cases where they completely oppress them, for instance, slavery), and the white man to come out weaker than the white man. Progressives put non-minority groups at the standard, and minority groups at a lower standard. This makes the minorities end up worse off in most ways than the white people, and effectively, the progressives create the problems for minorities that they may not have had before. They can then point to more and more "oppression" via the use of statistics, and it creates a vicious cycle, where some day "minorities" (as the progressives like to champion them) will be left off in complete ruin.
    Please give constructive criticism, I would like to be enlightened about new ways to think about the issue.

  21. I don't know why he still a Muslim then. It seems like he is just a liberal with religious trappings, because he has no religious conviction. For when their is clash between what his religion says and liberalism, then he will always choose liberalism. So in reality he is just a liberal that likes some aspects of Islam.

  22. "Regressive Left" About time a popular figure said it. Being are getting offended for other people when they themselves could not be possible offended.

  23. "Come to me as you are. I won't judge you by the deeds of your ancestors or those you call your brothers and sisters. As I cannot see your past with my eyes, I won't judge you based on it. I cannot presume what you will do in the future, so I won't hold it against you. I will treat you as a person who has the intelligence to make his or her own decisions now, in this moment. And we will either form a friendship or part ways amicably".

  24. no matter how much you try to please them, they just wont be pleased with you, untill you live an they live, and belief in what they belief in……

  25. no matter their individuality, if they call themselves a part of a community whose root basis is violence, volunteerily arent they in a sense with those idealogies too ? if not then they can change the community they belong to just by changing their religion to a peaceful one. but continuing to be a part of a community who strongly believes in violence and domination w/o wanting a change or w/o striving to change those particular part of believe is, for me, equivalent to believing in them. which to me is believing in something inhuman.

  26. I want to be called a eagle terminator robot. You better not call me a human against my will!

    Seriously though, just like the stuff you like and forget about gender labels. It causes more prejudice for many.

  27. I agree with everything, however not all "Muslim Beliefs" (even the faulty ones) are necessarily that subjectively terrible.
    Separating the objectively "dangerous and harmful" to subjectively "benign but false or almost certainly false". Uncompromising intolerance and bigotry is a problem, that should not be ignored at all. Muslims most certainly face uncompromising intolerance and bigotry.

    Complex issue addressed well; clicked like.

  28. I agree with him on every part, aside from the Transgender issue.

    Transgender people are not natural. They're selfish in all circumstances which I've seen, which has been a small sample (roughly 12 people), but 100% of the sample, which was obtained at random, has indicated complete and utter selfishness and a lack of thoughtfulness for others around them. Makes me believe these are selfish people seeking attention and are willing to sacrifice their gender identity to obtain admiration or possibly negative attention. (Same concept as a child… any attention, positive or negative, is still attention.) Just look at ANY, and I mean this with 100% certainty, ANY transgender person and you'll see hallmarks of selfishness and complete and utter self-absorbed attitudes. Never have I met 1 transgender person who looks out for other people, they're all completely about themselves and how unfair it is that they don't get the attention they want.

    Sorry, if you constantly experience assholes in one group, you'll tend to believe the entire group is nothing but assholes. Which you can easily associate with hate groups such as the Neo Nazis, Black Panthers, and gangs like 'Brown Pride." It just takes a small hand full of assholes to make the entire group look like complete and utter asses.

    With that said; I am basically trying to convey I'm willing to say I'm incorrect if I could get a bigger sample size and see a significant difference than the smaller sample.

  29. This is a really insightful argument for the means to practically progress in the face of the inaction of blanket tolerance. I watched this 3 times to pick up all of his arguments and assertions.

  30. I agreed up until the transgender issue and the further conflation done with that analogy. Obviously there are cases where that's true and that applies, but no, in the majority of cases, it's important to point out to a person who's confused the conceptual contradictions they choose to carry with them. I can't be an Atheist Christian just because I feel Christian even though I don't believe in God, same as I can't be a woman if I'm biologically IN EVERY WAY a man; it doesn't matter what I think of myself as. If you're attracted to other men as a man, it means you're gay, not a woman. (Not saying there aren't actual transgender people.)

    I see the point with this which he tries to make, and I kind of agree with the simple point that we need more voices like his in the Muslim community and that it's in ways important that they're still considered to be "Muslim". But this certainly wouldn't be the way to make that point (though quite honestly, I wouldn't know how to make it either without being disingenuous in some way, whether to others or yourself).

  31. The transgender analogy failed badly. Orienatlism is word/concept that has currency only among arab muslims and academia and should be trashed. Essentialism is something I've only ever heard Majid use and I don't fault him for it but your accusing a group (media, intellectual elite, "liberals") of obscurantism so you shouldn't indulge in the same practice. I've seen him meet sophisticated arguments very well I'm thinkin he was over tired or something for this.

  32. Please post this in response to some Bill Maher videos on the topic. He tries to explain this to liberals but not quite so eloquently as you have. You are totally right and more people need to hear this before our world goes down bad roads and possibly even into WW3!

  33. And I have switched from liberal to conservative lately in response to what is going on in the world, but if people could realize this and we could change communities I would go back to liberalism again. I don't agree with the blind eye liberals are turning to crimes against humanity in Muslim communities because they are MUSLIM and we must be tolerant! I mean come on, being tolerant of intolerance is ridiculous!! This is what I keep trying to explain to my previous liberal "allies" and they just call me racist. Please share this, more people need to wake up.

  34. Not sure how to word this, but it feels like for many people with orthodox (fundamentalist?) beliefs – whether Christian, Muslim, etc. – the personal dimension of their faith doesn't come into this discussion. They see their religion as a set of beliefs, rules, and rituals, and the degree to which you adhere to them is the degree to which you can claim the label. Go too far off the reservation, and you've forfeited the right to authentically call yourself that label, at least in their eyes. Your personal experience of religion isn't as important as abiding by the law, and no matter how you feel about it, you either are or are not following suit.

  35. I find myself arguing with Nationalists more than religious fundamentalists, But I'd like to think I'm still critical of bigotry and oppression in all sectors of society.

  36. Seeing this in my favorites is quite ironic considering some of the new stuff Big Think uploads. I suppose I shouldn't have been so quick to unfollow nor would I promote "no platforming." Still, I consider Big Think to have been more respectable and to leave the regressive left platforming to their forums…

  37. The video is contradictory of its title. This is why I lean Conservative. I expected him to say that because Muslims do have a very conservative religion, they shouldn't be expected to loosen up and accept certain progressive movements like same-sex marriage or feminism just because they vote Left. It's exactly why I vote RIGHT because they really don't care what skin color you are since it boils down to sharing the same core values. The Liberal Left is made up of too many groups of which many do not share the same values. They are only in the same political party because many of them have experienced what they feel is discrimination even though they would disagree on many important issues.

  38. People like Ben Whofleck who call Sam Harris and Bill Maher racist for being critical of Islam don't realize that they themselves are racist for first making a false equivalency between race and religion, and then classifying Islam as "the religion of brown people." Therefore, Whofleck makes Muslims racial "others," when, indeed, there are Muslims of all races, including his own.

  39. I never thought I'd say it, but Maajid Nawaz is wrong. He's making a false equivalency between gender identity and religious identity. There is no book describing what a man is supposed to believe and how a man is supposed to behave, nor is there a book describing what a woman is supposed to believe and how a woman is supposed to behave. But there is a book that describes what a MUSLIM is supposed to believe and how a MUSLIM is supposed to behave. It's called the "Quran." So, yes, we CAN say that liberal Muslims, feminist Muslims, gay Muslims, etc. aren't true representatives of Islam, because their beliefs and behavior contradict that "how-to-be-a-Muslim" instruction manual. But no such manual exists for the genders, at least not one that's universally accepted by all members of that gender in the way that the Quran is accepted by all Muslims.
    So, sorry, Maajid. I think you're a great guy, but you're wrong on that one.

  40. In this talk, he discusses "minorities", by which I understand Muslim- or other cultural communities within predominantly "Western" or European countries.This leads to a situation where the honest and rational discussions about culture and mutual tolerance only takes place in "Western" countries.

    In countries where "Western" cultures are in the minority, there is absolutely no drive or desire to discuss cultures and promote tolerance.

    What should "Westerners" do, who like their counterparts in the predominantly Muslim or other culture countries, have no desire to accommodate or tolerate other cultures in theirs? To say that they have to change their ways and knuckle under is not fair, as it is not expected of Muslim or other cultures to do in their countries.

    This will remain a problem in the world and I have no idea of what a solution looks like. The freedom to associate with whom you want, must surely be a human right?

  41. No it's not ok to normalize a mental illness and encourage a person to proceed
    in any form of amputation by supporting the idea that he-she is NOT what he-she is.
    That was an unfortunate example.

  42. the unfortunate thing is that it is gonna be extraordinarily hard or impossible to change the conservative islam because the unwillingness for many of the to even consider freedom of speech and therefore a liberal way of thinking mainly because they're afraid that atheism will spread among them in a country with islam majority

  43. I love Maajid, however, considering how much I consume content from Hersi Ali, Harris, Dawkins, and the like..he said several times "what i call xyz" and went on to quote one of them. He even took credit for George Bush's "soft bigotry of low expectations". He's gotta be careful and give credit where its due.

  44. I am all for cultural exchanges and embracing of others ideas, but when certain groups start forcing their way over others physically then it's gone to far.

  45. Assimilate or else, Trump's draw is a hillbilly attempt to distinguish which Muslim groups are radicalized and sort them out at the borders. As the history books show, the Japanese in WW2 were interned and nuked twice to deter suicide attacks, not done to Germans or Italians! I am not sure that Trump won't nuke Mecca and demand Muslims civilize themselves into this century. He's a loose cannon, but unlike George W, he will really take off the gloves!

  46. Hey question: Is it ok to lower the expectation of the moral values of individuals who have Or individuals who have been through alot of trauma? For example survivors of war? Or individuals who have been forced to adopt bad values to survive?

  47. Morality comes from God, so Quranic morality is correct. Stfu you atheist secularists have no legs to stand on.

  48. I have never understood why Liberal Muslims who interpret the Quran in a more modern way, have not given themselves a specific term in order to distinguish themselves from other believers of Islam. For example if a Christian were to tell me that they're Catholic or Protestant or Morman or Baptist or Jehovahs Witness or Mennonite or Amish or Quaker I'd understand the specifics of their faith immediately. I would never judge a Baptist for Catholic pedophile rings or a Protestant for practicing bigamy or a Jehovahs Witness for raising children by horse and candle light. So if someone told me they were X, Y or Z Muslim I'd be able to say this X Muslim is okay by me because they specifically believe that sexism, misogyny, homophobia, caliphates, non-apostacy, creationism, artistic and scientific oppression have no place in their faith.

  49. Either the koran is the word of God (as revealed to muhamed) or it is the ramblings of a delusional 7th century illiterate. Who decides which bits of the koran should be adhered to and which not? Like all religious texts it's interpretation will depend on the prevailing culture.At the moment enough muslims take it's teachings literally to present a serious problem worldwide, but we should all cross our fingers and wait for the long-overdue reform.

  50. There is a small but important typo in the subtext at 03:02 – "In protecting the group identity we end up reinforcing illiberal values…" Not "..in liberal values"

  51. Good job Maajid.  I AGREE WITH YOU AND WE ARE ACTING ELITIST AND CONDECENDING TO ACCEPT BAD BEHAVIOR FROM ANY GROUP BECAUSE THEY ARE…OH WELL JUST THOSE PEOPLE.

  52. Crypto alt-right horse shit masquerading as "critique" when it's actually demonizing and otherizing anyone who's NOT some cross-eyed Cantservative.

  53. If you would, consider these variables. We live in culture that claims to value human rights, including freedom of religion but also freedom FROM religion. Islam is designed to keep in its members and has a history of incompatibility with western values of free thought, free speech, tolerance toward gays, tolerance toward apostates, pluralism etc. Maajid has the enormous task of liberalising a religion that is impervious to liberalising. To accept a single flaw in the Quran, the supposed perfect divine word, is to undermine its entire credibility

  54. I've seen a lot of videos of Majid Nawaz and I understand how he has so much to agree with Douglas Murray or Sam Harris than with Tariq Ramadan or Mehdi Hasan.

    Big Think is really narrow in its approach to Muslims or religion. Do notice, they don't have any interviews with Tariq Ramadan, Mehdi Hasan, Yasir Qadhi or Hussain Haqqani. Because unlike Reza Aslan or Sam Harris, they will not speak the scripted narrative of "Islam and West". Big Think has far more non-Muslims and critics commenting on Islam than Muslims, isn't that grossly narrow ?

    As with Majid Nawaz, he's still doing the same mistakes as he was under Hizb-ut-Tahrir – spreading misunderstanding and prejudice. As he migrated across the Mediterranean, he has also switched from one kind of arrogance to another. It's like jumping across the Poles without looking at the equator. He's just another neo-Orientalist like Bernard Lewis or V S Naipaul who see only the political views of Muslims. He is still involved with political agendas than with the deeply spiritual and philosophical aspects of Islam.

    There are many eminent and sensible Muslims in the Occident which Big Think has chosen to ignore. Ditch the propaganda, people. Learn from Tariq Ramadan, Jonathan Brown, Yasir Qadhi and Hamza Yusuf. Visit MuslimMatters or Yaqeen Institute. Don't lock yourself up in echo chambers. They are all on YouTube.

  55. Maajid, as a theologically conservative Christian, I respect you and your courage immensely. But there's glaring flaw in your final argument about liberal/progressive/pro-LGBT Muslims being legitimately Muslim.

    As long as the Islamic community remains a community built around a particular literary text (or body of texts), ie the Qur'an and sunnah, it will always need to be the text that defines the community, not the other way around. To say otherwise is to buy into a subjectivism that, if you applied it consistently, would rob you of any basis to argue with anyone, even the violent and deplorable monsters within and without the Muslim community that you rightly and courageously oppose on a regular basis. And you know equally well that in order to reject the Muslim iterations of that sort of illiberalism, you must undercut the very content of the Qur'an (I'm thinking specifically about things like that ayah in Surah 4 that talks about the conditions under which it is permissible for a husband to beat his wife, which I know you do oppose). That aside, that subjectivism also lends a stick for the regressives to beat with you with in the sense that you can no longer say that "Muslim" is a voluntary ideological label rather than a racial group. To put it another way, if the definition of "Muslim" no longer has any meaningful connection with Muhammad and the Qur'an as they define themselves, then all that's left is a complex of racial and cultural identities that enable regressivism in its identity politics.

    You've said elsewhere that Islam as a religion needs to be interpreted and there are multiple viable interpretations of it, including the Islamist one and your own. But if Islam means submission, and whichever of those interpretations the believer subscribes to is mostly dependent upon the believer's preference rather than any binding hermeneutic principle, then the question is obvious: what exactly are you submitting to?

  56. Dude, if you're gay, liberal, and for human rights, you're not muslim. Maybe you have some sort of religion, but it's not Islam. That's like me saying that I'm a Nazi that just happens to be a gay feminist Jew as I march in a BLM protest. Maybe I could be a nationalist. Maybe I could be a fascist. I wouldn't, however, be a Nazi. By definition, I wouldn't. It's not legitimate by definition. I'm not going to call those people people muslim because it diverts the discussion away from what an actual muslim believes. They have a book. The book is crystal clear regarding its rules. There is no way to misinterpret it. When I condemn Islam, I am referring to the ideology that is based off the Quran and thus Sharia law. It is disgusting. The same goes for Christianity. The ideology that is based off the Bible is disgusting. Any ideologies that are not based off the Bible are not Christianity by definition. While religion is retarded in the first place, the problem is that we have retards reading retarded shit that promotes violence against other retards that believe different retarded shit. This narrative is found in the Quran more-so than the Bible. This is why I despise it just a tad more. Everyone needs to put down their clubs and ooga-booga beliefs about the big daddy in the sky and work together to build a fire. It's fucking cold out and everyone's hungry.

  57. The Southern Poverty Law Center called him an "anti-Muslim extremist". The irony being he's dedicating his life to improving the culture of Islam. It should be noted SPLC has taken him off that list and issued a formal apology.
    https://www.splcenter.org/news/2018/06/18/splc-statement-regarding-maajid-nawaz-and-quilliam-foundation

  58. The regressive left in America and Europe are cowards when it comes to conservative Islam, to the point where they are eagerly embrace it and fervently defend it. Why is that? They would never do that for the other two conservative Abrahamic ideologies.

  59. what kind of follower of a religion would advocate the reformation of what he believes is the word of god? how arrogant. wouldn't that mean his not really a believer. Also, hes been saying that you cnt put a tag on a whole group of people, bullshit. muslims believe a warlord pedophile, rapist, conquerer is the perfect man and a profit of a good god, even if alot of muslims wouldnt engage directly in any killings or rapes themselves, they're still stupid enough to believe this kind of guy could create a religion of peace. go home muslims, take what you've learnt from the west and sort your own countries out instead of running from the fuckry of islam only to bring it with you. truth is not one of you is worth another one of our own being killed, or children being raped just to accommodate a load of foreigners who wont even join us at our dinner table or engage in our cultural norms.

  60. Totally agree with this. I once said how quran is full of mysogny verses and got called "fake news", "islamophobia", "i have a muslim friend who is nice to me". Those are not the answer for a healthy discussion. A healthy discussion would be to challenge me to provide the so called verses and to analyze it together.

  61. I think the same applies to the actions of the Likud government of Israel. It isn't antisemitic to criticize them for building settlements on Palestinian land.

  62. Liberals and Muslims don't/shouldn't mix, The Conservative Muslim is a "Real Muslim" Im not a hater and im not prejudiced against anyone for any reason, but Islam and Muslims have no place on the political battlefield aligned with LGBTQ, Feminism, Atheism, Gender Equality, Political Correctness, Antifa, BLM, Female Rulers/Presidents, Sexual Freedom (promiscuity), or Pro Choice Abortion Rights, because they all stand for things Islam totally and completely is 100 percent against, they are the enemies of our religion And Allah (SWT) knows Best

  63. If Maajid were truly moral, he'd quit Islam because of its noxious teachings, rather than pretending he can cherry pick what he believes.

  64. I'm a leftist. I have zero issue with someone being Christian or Muslim. It's when they try to force their religion on me that I get annoyed.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *