Religion and Gay Marriage

Good morning, Hank, it’s Tuesday. I really liked your video about marriage equality on Friday, but today I wanted to approach the question of gay marriage from a specifically religious perspective. But to do that we have to first figure out what exactly marriage is, which turns out to be incredibly complicated. All right, so to illustrate this, I’m gonna make yellow thingamajigs men and blue whozeewhats women. Let’s begin with the idea that so-called “traditional marriage” is a union between one man and one woman. Well that’s simply not accurate: There are some very traditional marriages that did not feature just one man and one woman. For instance, in the Bible, King David was married to… 18 women, and Solomon, who was known for his good judgement, was married to seven hundred! Which is not even to mention his three hundred concubines. Frankly, it just seems greedy. In fact I think almost everything we associate with traditional marriages — from white dresses, to monogamy, to scripture readings, to saying “I do” — is not very traditional. For the vast majority of Christian history until the 16th century, it was uncommon for Christian marriages to happen in churches, or to be overseen by clergy, or even to feature witnesses! People became married by agreeing to be married and then honoring that commitment. It was just, “I marry you,” “I marry you,” “Mmmmmmarried!” And then often, but not always, they let the church know that they got married, because the church kept the records. Furthermore the idea that marriages always occur between one man and one woman imply that everyone is either a man or a woman, which is simply not the case it and it never has been! A significant portion of the human population — somewhere around 0.5% — has always been intersex. Intersex people might be chromosomally XXY, or XYY, or have androgen insensitivity syndrome, or a bunch of other conditions that make them neither unambiguously male nor unambiguously female. Historically, many of these people have gotten married without the social order falling apart and many of them still get married today, but laws like the one just voted on in North Carolina make it unclear whether intersex people are allowed to marry anyone. Right, so marriage and sex turn out to be very complicated. Well I’m about to make it more complicated. So for many religious people, including lots of Christians, Jews, and Muslims, marriage is not just a legal agreement, but a covenant. You’re making a promise to God that you will stick together for life. And for many religious people, marriage is only really marriage if that covenant is involved. And that means that for lots of those people, gay marriage is impossible, because “homosexual relationships are inherently sinful” which means that God cannot be present in and bless that union. Now Hank, I should add that lots of religious people and institutions don’t believe that, but some do, and I’m not going to try to convince those people or those institutions that they are wrong, because 1) it won’t work, and
2) I read the comments from your last video. It was a little discouraging. But Hank, if we’re gonna say that the legal benefits of marriage should only be extended to people who have made this covenant with God, then we get ourselves into a HUGE problem! Like you and The Katherine got married in a field – does that mean you’re not really married? Like should you be allowed to visit The Katherine in the hospital, or share custody of kids you adopt, or file taxes together? Or should those privileges only extend to people who got married in a church, like me? And do all church weddings count, or only people who get married in certain kinds of churches? Because then I might be in trouble. Hank, that line of thinking does not lead to a good legal definition of marriage. The truth is, marriages are intensely personal, and they are defined not by courts or by voters, but by the people who live inside of them. That’s traditional marriage! People making a private, daily, life-long commitment. We can’t make gay marriage illegal because gay marriage is already happening. It has been happening, in fact, for as long as human beings have been pledging themselves to each other. But tragically, in most of the world, we deny gay people the rights and obligations that are associated with their marriages. And that is just discrimination. There are going to be marriages you don’t like and married people who do things that you don’t think married people should do. But whether they’re getting married, or they’re getting married, or they’re getting married, those marriages won’t affect yours. Hank, I’ll see you on Friday.

  1. Ignorance can be overcome with an open mind, heart and sound education, faith, works, and accurate knowledge.

  2. If only it were that simple. Marriage becomes a government concern when children are involved. Then it becomes a socialization issue. You did not deal with the real deal at all. Most people have no issue with people making private decisions based on their own beliefs. It's when you are making these decisions for children, adoption, etc. that it is a thornier topic. It's the same with abortion. It deals with making lasting decisions that impact another life/lives. As for the Biblical examples you mentioned, God never condoned the "many wives". And the new testament clarifies this. Biblical stories, history, is full of flawed human beings being saved by Grace. No one lives up to God's design for our flourishing.

  3. I could care less about gays and I don't even give a crap because it's against my religion so I'mma keep thinking that because it's my life and my mind

  4. As an ex bi person I think that it is wrong. If it wasn't I wouldn't have changed. It still you love tho cause I passed my history exam because of your vidoes.

  5. Dumbest thing I’ve seen. There are two genders, just because each person isn’t exactly the same doesn’t take away the fact of there just being two genders. Since the beginning there have been just two genders and most agreed until the dark ages, aka the 2000’s. This is disappointing to see humanity plummet this deep into sin. I can’t even say much more since no one will agree with anything I’d say even with no reason. All I will say is when judgement day comes, don’t be pleading to god/Jesus because you had your chance

  6. If being gay is a sin and u go to hell for it.
    And god made all humans.
    Why did god make millions of humans gay?
    Just asking.

  7. Woah I was really expecting John to bash religion here… 🤭 I don’t think anyone can get offended though. Good job John 👍

  8. Fr though. All of that Old Testament stuff wouldn’t be good source. Cause think about it realistically, you eating pig/shrimp? Go to hell. You divorce your wife? Go to hell. God says you have to love or you are not god, yet it’s unfair for someone to pick who I’m going to love. What if I don’t like them? I feel bad for everyone who gets into arranged marriages.
    I love god and everyone, no matter how many times I say “I hat you.” I don’t mean it literally. Everybody have a fantastic day, ❤️.

  9. It's interesting coming back to this video in 2019, I just wrote a research paper on this exact subject for school.

  10. For the ones that are homosexuals, they think is not a sin. Babies don't have sex, only when people grow. That means that sexual relations are learned once you are growing and begin experiencing daily feelings. God doesn't immediately punish people for doing wrong, but one day we all must face a Judgement Day. It is then when all people will understand what is really called sin by God

  11. Hello compas l was never marriaged with the officer woman and l was never sex with any officer woman and I was never divorced from nobody in my life

  12. This is so dumb
    Veterans get 2 days of celebration or remorse
    And these people get a whole month of celebration for liking guys

  13. I don't agree with any of your opinions but that thing you've said that about 2 minutes 20 seconds made me really sad I do feel bad for you although I do not agree with your opinions and you are right no matter what you say I've heard many people's arguments and my opinions can never change there's not because I am ignorant is because I choose to believe my religion tells me but I am only 15 and my opinion might change some day but I think it is highly unlikely now I do not think I'm ignorant for believing what I do and if you disagree with me go fuc yourself

  14. Technically in leviticus it is stated that Having lots of wives is wrong

    (Edit) so technically the david and solomon part is wrong

  15. 3:15 and what's so wrong about discrimination dear John? Explain to me why it's wrong. There will always be discrimination in any society and no matter how much you and other people wish it, there is nothing you can do to prevent that and make a society that's inclusive to everyone. would you please wake up from your daydreams?

  16. David and Solomon’s marriages were not seen as correct; both were punished for it. As a christian, I believe that christian marriage is a covenant, but I have no right to tell others what unchristian marriage is. Although I disagree with gay marriage I don’t thing those people are inherently bad and I absolutely don’t think the government should have any say in marriage at all.

  17. your using the wrong examples. God created Adam and made for him a help mate, Eve. male and female created He them. PERIOD

  18. Marriage is a bond God united between man and woman. There is no traditional marriage but it’s just called marriage. What is marriage? A marriage is married in a court to fulfil the society’s requirement but the main blessings come from God in His temple. God united Man as Adam and Woman as Eve. Other than that everything is an abomination in the sight of God.

  19. @Jeff this one is for you and for all who think like you.

    Psalm 19:7-9
    The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. …

  20. My church is pretty clear on it's stance on marriage. It is not complicated at all. The Book of Common Prayer has very clear rules on how a marriage is to be done, here is a quote "At the day and time appointed for solemnization of Matrimony, the persons to be married shall come into the Body of the Church with their friends and neighbours: and there standing together, the Man on the right hand, and the Woman on the left, the Priest shall say,". It clearly indicates that matrimony is between a one man and one woman.

  21. 1:14 "a significant portion of the human population somehwere around .5% identify as inter-sex"(or something along those lines) was I the only one that found that funny?

  22. No religion here. Thousands of homosexuals died because they were using their digestive systems as sex organs. Mess with mother nature, you pay the price. Don't pay attention to homosexuals rather only pay attention to ex homosexuals.

  23. Leviticus 18:22 says, “[Men] shall not lie with a male as onLeviticus e lies with a female; it is20:13 an abomination.” says, “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act.”

  24. We break God's law so far, and we have got to the brink of ww3, I think this new movement will cause the tipping threshold, everyone is on a journey what we do is our choice but making a new religion is bad. teaching kids and sexualising them and changing God's commandment means He will have to intervene.

  25. The only way it affects your marriage that now everyone can get married is if the only reason you got married to the person you did is because you couldn't marry the person you wanted and now you can.

  26. “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act”- Leviticus 20:13

  27. Thank you for this 😉 I know I’m like 7 almost 8 years late but this really helped me feel better about myself since I’m gay and have been told I can’t get married to a woman if I love god.

  28. 85 % of gay men have Aids. Obama made it legal.. The dems will do anything for votes.. look up the stats yourself. Promoting a union that is deadly is just plain reckless. Not sure how religion fits into this epidemic except the Bible warned this was dangerous behavior .

  29. I haven't even thought of this issue in a long time, because courts solved it, and I haven't gone to church in months (and my pastor is openly gay).

  30. Didn't the church marry two nuns in the Middle Ages (we would not have heard about it, because it happened in a convent…but…).

  31. So he says marriage is too subjective and personal. Yet by that standard should a religious person be forced to except anothers marriage. Ignoring the government side of this his argument holds no ground.

  32. I can pinpoint changes in my interests, dreams, goals and ideas by whether I choose to watch 200 John videos before bed, or Hank ones.

    I used to be very sciencey, have in the last five years become increasingly write-y.. and find myself more interested in the social sciences..?

    which I seem to get more of, at least contextually, from John..?

    admire them both, adore near-every video on this channel, but I can really see the trajectory of my interests and study-goals in my VlogBrothers watch-time..

  33. I am a Christian, but some of the bible reminds me of the game "telephone" I feel almost all of it is real, but a bit makes me question whether or not it's true.

  34. He forgot to mention that diamond rings were a recent (capitalist) addition to the ceremonies and traditions.

  35. Bible also says to pay a man upon completion of his day's work. How often is that respected anymore?
    Society changes. Just like language does. We don't speak like Shakespeare anymore, do we?

  36. Yoo it’s the dude who talks super fast that all my high school teachers thought was hilarious

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