– Ehh why do you think socialism can work? – I think the point that we need to understand
the most is that there's no… one of the best ways, right? I think that one of the first points we can see between all the… …possibilities that there are flaws I think all the need for us to begin to understand more I think one of the big problems today is is an awareness of these "guidelines/agenda" especially at the moment where we live an intolerance, right? – Ok, but do you think there's a world that'd be possible for all people to be equal? – No. – No, because… First… Us.. The equality… Equality to succeed and socialism… first we need politicians to look at us, the workers and students, right? and want something in life they (politicians) don't look!! – Do you think it's impossible for them to look? – Never. – Look, unfortunately, socialism… in theory, it's really beautiful, but… it won't work. I… I agree with you. – But why do you think… First: Why do you think it's "really beautiful"? and second: Why do you think it won't work? – Ah, the talk about having income distribution… where everyone is… Nobody would starve… Everyone would be… Benefited… The government would help. I… I think that… *smh* from the moment it is placed… Men in power… It doesn't work. – I agree with you that every economic and political system will have flaws… but I think socialism has more flaws.
Do you think it doesn't? – Depends on the point of view you're talking about… of a human side… when we talk about socialism… we also think of a much more social side. I understood what you said… that you support a much more capital side… Ok, we need capital… but if we don't have… a social side… is one of the things that happened in some public policies… like United States, for example… ehhh… In an idea that released a lot… But many people ended up losing their house… And things like that. – Ok, but in a social side… Do you think people have a better life quality in socialist countries than in capitalist countries? – Dude, it depends a lot… – On what? Name a socialist country that you think has… better life quality than a capitalist country? – For exemple, we can see in… Education. Education today in Cuba, for example, is reference. Now if we put… their life quality… living in… Misery, I agree with you, it's terrible. – You think capitalism doesn't allow people to… to develop little by little, enriching and improving their lifestyle? – No. – It doesn't allow? – No, it doesn't. – Why? – Because there's a lot of inequality. – Ok, there's a lot of inequality but… ehhh… Even with a lot of inequality, the poor here in Brazil… the majority are much less poor than the poor in Venezuela… that is… a socialist country. What do you think of that? Do you think it's better to have a bigger inequality and the poor live better or having a bigger equality and everyone be poor, fucked and screwed? – So, can I make you a question now? Their… Revolution… Has their socialism worked for how many years? – Uhh… I believe 20-30 years. – So, then it's already going, halfway there, it's not a child anymore. Our country isn't in their stage yet. Get it… – No, no, no… Venezuela is poor… In Venezuela people are fleeing to Brazil, to Rondônia, one of the poorest states… Rondônia, Roraima, one of the poorest states in Brazil… the Venezuelans are fleeing here because there is no food there… People are seeling their kids because there's no food. Do you think this socialism is the ideal? Or do you think there's another kind of socialism that can work? – No, it's not working there then. It isn't working, in this case. – And where do you think it's working? – Now you left it open… – Do you think cuban health and cuban education being good… is due exclusively to socialism? Do you think it's impossible to have… quality and accessible health and education in a capitalist country? Like, where everyone can make their own choices, they have… Freedom to access the internet, as in Cuba they don't… Freedom to travel wherever they want, as in Cuba they don't… Freedom to buy whatever they want, as in Cuba they don't… – My point of view is also a bit more libertarian… When we talk about socialism… Communism… Everything that is extreme… We already see points there that restrict freedom of speech… Freedom of each person's autonomy… One of the points that we must also observe… Like I said, there's no perfect system… And I believe we have to get exactly the good and bad parts But in reality what I see the most… Is bad management. – Eduardo Campo! He was the best politician in Brazil! – Then it isn't socialism anymore! – He was the best governor of the state… Wait- wait- *confusion* – Lemme tell you… He was the best governor of Pernambuco… I mean… He was a good politician.
Good politician is dead politician. He dead. – Ehh… He has the right to give his opinion but… There goes another version, he's talking about… Death. Nooo, then it isn't socialism anymore… That's already having inequality – What's socialism for you? – Socialism? It's when you can count on each other… And one help the other, no matter what it is, got it? Is it the government? Is the government weak? Yes, ok. But let's make a revolution so everyone can help each other, got it? – And how do you think this revolution should be? Take the means of production by force? Like they did in Russia? Like they did in China? Like they did in Cuba? An armed revolution that you need to… Ehh… Destroy the elite to seize power? For the people to take power? You defend that? – Look, I don't know because I didn't follow this but… I don't think it would be necessary. – There is no socialist country that is a democracy… Today… And never existed. Do you think democracy is an important value for you? More than equality? More than what you said about social? That theoretically people in socialism, they… Socialism looks more towards the welfare of people, not much for… To… Greedness… Capital… Etc… Do you think it's worth giving up democracy, people's freedom… Their right to decide what to say, how to accumulate their capital… For a supposed… Social hegemony, social equality? – Then you already put the point of extremism as I just told you… Ehhhh… That's exactly what I tell you… The freedom of any person, I think is Primordial at any point. – Then you wouldn't give up freedom… To… To… Defend equality, for example? – No. – Then we agree. Then we agree socialism doesn't work… Because the key word of socialism, the value of socialism is equality… Ehhh… And it's not possible… My opinion ok? There's no way to have equality… Ehh.. Where there's freedom. Because if there's freedom, people will be different. People will make different decisions, people wil… Live differently, say different things… So… Equality can't be the absolute value in a society that is free/libertarian. – Do you both consider that you are in a better condition than your family in the past? – I consider that I am. – And you? – No, I don't, no. – You are at the same or it got worse? – I'd say that I'm at the same. – What do you think it could… That the economic system… Or idk, do you think if Brazil was socialist you'd be in a better situation? Or you, your family, people around you? – I'd say it'd help. – Why? – Because then, we're getting already to equality. Get it? Equal to equal. – Yeah but… That's the thing, to you, equality is the absolute value…? For example, is it better for all people be equal and poor or people be unequal and less poor? – Equal… – And poor? *thinking emoji* – Because if equality is the absolute value… It will be better be equal independent if it's equal rich or equal poor. – Equal and poor… Because it wouldn't be poor. There'd be equality… Got it? There's no way- – But equality doesn't guarantee wealth. – No… – No? – Exactly. – So you rather be equal and poor than unequal and rich? – It wouldn't be poor. It wouldn't be poor. – Why? – Because equality there's no way you'd be poor… In a country so rich we live. – Our country isn't rich. – How are we not rich? – If we divide the PIB (GDP) that is… We measure wealth… Ehh… Measuring production. What is production? It's everything we produce in product and service. If we divide everything that Brazil produces in a year by the number of people… It's R$2.000 per people [T/N: around $503 when video was posted]. Do you think that would make us… Imagine if we'd take the entire PIB (GDP) of the country and divide it equaly by everyone… It'd be R$ 2.000 per capita… Do you think that's… wealth? – No, it wouldn't be just that… R$ 2.000… – Yes, it's exactly that, PIB per capita in Brazil is R$2.000. 2000ish – Libertarian capitalism isn't anti-social… It's perfectly possible… It's perfectly possible to do social service, do social work with a private initiative… You don't need… cê… h.. Like the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church is the largest… Ehh… Charity institution of the world. It isn't a government institution. And it does a lot of service/work worldwide… Building hospitals, building schools, building… Nursing homes, building leprosariums, building orphanages… Universities… We don't need a big state to do social work… To do charity, to help people who have less… – I agree with you… And one of the big problems I see today… That we left a lot in the hands of the government… Not only [fiscalization]… But [managing]… And this is one of the big problems, I think… Bad management. Exactly, I think we agree on this. One of the big problems isn't a State action… In fact of having the necessity of a State that does the fiscalization… Not the necessity of a State that does the managing… In fact because we haven't today rulers that know how to manage our public machines… – What would you say to your teenage self when you started to [militate] for PT (Worker's Party)? When you started to believe in socialist, leftist ideas? What would you say? – I didn't know much about the world and about life. SPOTNIKS
"O socialismo nunca dará certo. Mude a minha opinião."
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