Making the Case for Libertarian Anarchism. Kal Molinet & Keith Knight



welcome to Keith's night don't tread on anyone today we have kal mullah net we're gonna talk about how to communicate libertarianism and anarchism kal how are you I'm doing swell how are you I'm doing fine before we get to the discussion tell me about how it was being in DC talking to people at the March for our lives event I would say not even for the March for alaric lives event that DC in front of the White House there's a lot of protesters there's a lot of people have been doing this for a long time they do weekly monthly sort of events there and of course that seems to be the go-to place for a lot of people who want change of some kind and so I find it to be an interesting venue different senior I'm a DC native before I moved here to Richmond so I've lived in CC for about 15 years plus so I'm quite familiar with the city I love this city if I didn't move here to Richmond I just start a liberate DC for example so I like the scenery I've always loved the city and it's just a different pace of people to talk to you I mean I'm still gonna be doing it here in Richmond but versus VCE college students where their opinions and not pinions are not yet formulated or concrete or hadn't been like over a decade coming to those conclusions I like the people outside of the white house cuz they have spent quite some time controlled amount of time even if they're wrong even if this feels over facts is this you talk too much order crowd of people and I think that's a little bit more challenging and a lot more fun and I think the next area for I'm doing my spreading Anarchy series will be in front of the White House so yeah March for allies was uh what's what's to be expected there's just a lot of people who don't really know what it is that they're arguing for or what it is they're advocating for exists they see guns and they're fearful and they have PTSD when you know even just looking at it just like that one reporter who pull the trigger you know is oh my god there's like PTSD it's like firing a grenade launcher so you know of course when you ask them what a a or 15 stands for the AR part none of them know right they say uh assault rifle armor light that's manufacture so it kind of be who stood to do some research but you know that's that takes time actually you know it takes work and it's easier to just pair the line of your local professor than to actually do some independent research but over I was a lot of fun um a lot of good content material of course and I just always have a good time just arguing so it's a it's great I love it so in the description below you can now find Cal's channel he does such a great job with nonviolent communication and sort of like man on the street interviews I'm curious when I can't wait for that spreading Anarchy series uh when when you're talking to a conservative versus a progressive what different mechanisms or tools do you use to communicate the ideas of anarchism to people of those different types of of beliefs I would say gage first their responsiveness how they react to me you know and for the most part if I come at them non-combat if they're not going to be as combative back towards me so I can I just case their attitude gate at gage door I guess verbal cues you can say and from there I kind of set off but you usually my conversations with Republicans a lot more fruitful I would say because they already have I don't have to skirt around using the word capitalism or a free market trigger words you know in terms of sometimes for liberals and I could then just use that to see like who's the more capitalist you know isn't it more capitalistic to let the free market control and produce these services and goods that the government has monopolized right and from there usually most Republicans or conservatives already have view that a lot of Taxation is already theft so it's not that difficult to stretch it and universalize that would principles with logic with that and so I would say there are a lot more versed and some of the most of the facts I don't really have to go for the feels kind of approach in terms of conservatives and yeah I kind of enjoy that with liberals you kind of have to mix it up a lot more felis a lot more of the facts but it can be combative if I wanted it to be but uh you know that's not really my endgame for a lot of this stuff my name is mostly just trying to help them understand that is Ben sled right from the most part we've all been misled and there's a lot of anarchists have come to this position from all over many different backgrounds being extremely hardcore Pro socialists progressive now to being pro-gun Pro free market and I know quite a number of them so so it's not different tactics yeah for different people know your audience and that's sort of me that difficult but of course you know we go to a March for Life Mars for our lives protesting ugly all of them are gonna be liberals so gives you can again more of an idea of where you're putting yourself into alright so one of the major things that that conservatism and progressives actually do justify the state on is we need a state to help the poor how do you talk to people when making the libertarian anarchist case that helping the poor would be best done in a libertarian anarchist Society there's a history I remind them of history used to be facto evidence for this the society alloys provided that for themselves and these are the sort of things that are not included in textbooks friendly societies mutual aid societies black fraternities all these numerous groups in the past before the Lyndon Johnson's war on poverty people that were provided freely voluntarily with no extortion neither involved until the government saw then in the last thing that they wanted is that kind of independence from government so you know those are the first thing you kind of want to attack right and that's so much of the government the state wants to attack the family unit and dissolve it and break it up so that way the status or family they'd also seek out to you know disrupt any kind of independence from government and from the state and so what they did then is send out the code enforcers tax enforces license enforcers and got rid of August about all them you know threatened them threatened the doctor that continued medicine practice this building the deep build for the for the people for your community you know it's not up to code it's gonna cost a lot of money to redo if you continue to risk your practice or your livelihood be put at risk and with that out of the way that's where your Medicare Medicaid and Social Security all those programs came in so it's not so much that they feel like we won't help the poor if they look in the past that people have helped the poor that's how they helped one another and it did exist and that is a fact and there's numerous evidence to show that but that's not something that uh they know about and that's where I go you know I can't be biased like how you have so much patience talking to a lot of these peoples like I can't get angry over people's lack of knowledge of things right like I can get angry at my siblings for not knowing things and I can't get angry at other people for not being presented with this knowledge information so I can have patience for that and helping them learn you know what they do with that information afterwards when they when they have it and they studied it and they still continue yeah maybe you can uh up the the discussion a little board more aggressively but first time around you know I give everyone a chance to kind of digest it I guess this is uh like 1984 they do a good job erasing a fax history they rewrite it all the time so I think that's a kind of an important approach to take when talking to other people they just don't know all right so no need a ticket personally now also when it comes to helping the poor the major thing that mostly left is focus on is health care they imagine that currently the state is pretty much hands-off on health care in America and and that's why prices are so high and everything how do you communicate to people that something as necessary as health care should be totally voluntary boy reminding that uh you know if they care about health right there's a lot of things that government does that kind of threatens that health the livelihood you know your life at the end goal you know you want to live a long fulfilling life with health good health but it doesn't help if government threatens that good health with with guns and throwing people into cages for victimless crimes so there was easy first point out that government itself is not really in their vested interest to care for good health right if they after you threatened their health especially a gunpoint through taxes through many numerous laws the second point would be to remind him again of the history mutual societies they provided all these kind of communal health cares for each other and I would say then the third part would be you know bring some facts you know for example there's a state government limit on the amount of doctors there could be so with that kind of limit you create that kind of asphyxiation in the market of doctors of supplies of doctors out there so of course when you limit doctors it's not gonna be that many doctors and of course whereas the opposite to occur government limit on the amount of doctors or can be the abundance of doctors will lower prices all right so one of the reasons why prices are so high is because government limits the amount of practices there can be doctors there can be out there so it's not uh that's not the market that's not uh the states doing that very thing that purports to do to provide health care when they stifle it yeah I remember first learning about certificate of need laws which is literally competitors getting together to see if a new competitor can come and compete with them within a certain political area whether it's a state or a city or a county and I just and that just brought me down the rabbit hole of how often the state actually is the hurdle to getting healthcare where it's like you have the provider and the patient who want to get together they want to trade the patient wants the goods the producer wants to trade them for money but the state is constantly getting the way in the way everywhere we look what how do you respond to people who fear that with government they sort of have a say politicians can bend to the whim of the masses whereas without a state big business would take over uh I mean what is it that a big businesses will take over right have you acknowledged their business and businesses are like subscription-based fee and had anytime you can subscribe it's like that's not really much of a threat or a frightening scenario you know start planning Starbucks you know it wouldn't be doesn't point guns at people you know to work for them a lot of people say this is waste Lee everybody you know there's no gun that a Walmart point said its employees to come there to work for them right but there was a gun of my government that forces you to work one third of the entire year just to pay taxes and so you know there's there's the gun when I situation was put into place when the state involved in solves but they stay like to prepare yourself to be a business in every turn a corner it's a is that wolf in sheep's clothing it likes to borrow a lot of phrases from the market here in Virginia for example or we could say USPS so it prepares itself sometimes to say well you know we're not a government agency we would make our own money we're a private group but that's not true because they have a monopoly on first class now known was allowed to compete against USPS in their monopoly on your first customer delivering pieces of paper UPS FedEx although them can dealer packages but and none of them can price and stuff lower than USPS there's laws against that as well but USPS also is their own billion dollars in debt they bow our money in the millions you look at their annual on the report annual report income reporting you'll find that you know how much money and them tens of millions sometimes that they've powered from the government at nearly zero interest fees these are loans that no other business have access to right so you can't tell me that that the private and of course they'll use that phrase because people do like you know those small pop businesses people like the kind of entrepreneurship and people like then government will then like to pretend they're business to to chemic honor that kind of support only when it benefits them you know and if it doesn't you know though lambaste big businesses and corporations and all those other people and put the blame and shift onto them but yeah I would say you know it's like ABC government in the state of Virginia has a monopoly on liquor and they say thank you so much for your patron it's like I can't go anywhere else right yeah it's not a real business yeah and as far as the Postal Service goes when Lysander Spooner tried competing with them to meet consumer demand in a more effective way they just legally put him out of business they didn't even argue it's still the idea that the states therefore the consumer the person forcing you to buy their product is not there for you that's incredible but that has to be said right communicating with conservatives they often say that war is the result of foreign aggressors aggressing against America and on such a large scale you need a state to deter and/or combat those enemies how do you talk to conservatives who say that war justifies the necessity of a state oh you can start off you know the state is war on peaceful people has been from the very beginning when now you could say well you over overthrow a tyranny and the American Revolution the British government let me saw that as a tyranny to overthrow and he saw them as war on people on the Americans here but then you saw quickly how the politicians did that's very same thing here two Americans who saw George Washington with his a whiskey rebellion you know it's running down people for not collecting taxes and declare war on peaceful people we have John Quincy Adams you have numerous service of people who like the Alien and Sedition Act you know we can't have freedom of speech to uh you know criticize people right they have a Lincoln suspending habeas corpus throwing people in jail for people who disagreed with them and his political viewpoints and all of Maryland and DC so yeah government is war on people if you disagree with government if you try to run away escape and they say that yo than something you know you'll be chased after what guns you'll be thrown into a cage if you try to escape you'll be murdered right that's this is on a grander scores organized work but at an individual level it's this war on on people especially here in the United States but they also forget that few government has no obligation to protect people right you have many Supreme Court rulings Warren versus District of Columbia detainee versus Winnebago County a lot of errors in which the police failed to respond the government failed to respond and the Supreme Court's the judges have decreed and say they're yeah there's no obligation to protect life liberty or property so if there's no obligation to do that then you're forced to taxation to fund a service in which they don't have to provide right so I mean well it is war on people it's also war on keeping the charade up you have to call it differently you know you can't call it a theft you have to call it taxes but at the same time if this raid were up you know people will see the government for what it is can like any other mafia group but look at the situation at the Bundy ranch when you know the argument there was property rights and the government couldn't come out with more of a better justification to argue against that and you had voluntary militia groups converging to the Bundy ranch and they had rifles they had all kinds of guns pointed at government agents and you know the first time I would imagine that happen and the government's not firing back right and they sit down government backed off so while it is war on people it's a war that they have to hide and call it by a different name it's an indirect war they can't really openly call it war for now but because if they did you know you'll have all those voluntary malicious groups you know it's we're law armed civilian population group in the world and a lot of them are veterans too so you know it'd be a huge mess for them so I would say conservatives always say that because they're unaware of the fact that government has no obligation to protect life liberty property and then when you analyze what is taxation right that's not you know they're gonna threaten your life liberty or property in order to protect your life liberty property it's an inconsistent a logical concept to hold at the same time yeah it's so unbelievable that there wasn't look by the way Don Lemon called the Bundys a terrorist organization and but as far as a Warren V District of Columbia that that just totally refutes the idea of a social contract it's like obligation on one party no obligation on the other like I cannot imagine like a in Olive Garden saying you have to pay us whether we bring you food or not like it's so ridiculous the fact that people can't hold that standard to the state is incredible I'm curious what was the best argument when you are at the March our lives event what was the best gun control argument you got from someone there and how did you respond to it the best one I know it's a very low bar it kind of reminds me of them this friend told me that she was talking to this communist and this guy was a communist said the reason why he advocates communism is because he hates people and and it's defines it to be the most efficient way to get rid of people it's kind of makes sense right and that's the only reason he's a communist so maybe some of these people have I don't know there's some kind of perverse fantasy that they hate people and you know if you see that history has a long pattern of seeing government register people who have guns then take them away and then slaughter them hosts so you know maybe one of them have that kind of same opinion and opine and that they hate people and the best way to get rid of people is to have government confiscate their guns so you can have this wholesale slaughter of peaceful people and so I I wouldn't say there's a I like how sometimes they they try to trick you say you know I'm a gun owner myself you know it's like you know I wouldn't what are you doing here dude oh yeah but there's a I don't think there's a position any position to come across this like oh my god yeah I must uh entertain that for a little bit because they don't really provide any kind of facts you know if they did they'd know handguns kill more people than rifles right or if you acts and what is uh yeah what is an assault rifle what makes it an assault rifle they don't know no it's a military grade weapon they also carried knives and else I have m9 beretta I had a carry a Beretta m9 millimeter beretta pistol when I was in the military so is an an assault handgun too because they sell them freely all over the place so that means all hangers have to be gone to pretty much all guns but I think a lot of this stuff just comes from the media and the media has done a good job sensationalizing this to make it seem like it's happening all over the place is a very constant threat to be wary of but when you look at the facts and statistics these kinds of math school students I've come down considerably over the past few decades is not a undereyes crime in general and the whole world has been going down it's almost boring to keep bringing up but the fact that these these people they're they tend to be anti-trump progressive leftists and just like a couple weeks ago they're like the guy in charge of government is a racist sexist psychopath Hitler light and cops are an inherently racist institution by the way all of that they're the ones who should have all the guns and they should have a single-payer monopoly on health care like I can't believe that this isn't pointed out like CNN's on 24 hours a day and not one of them has thought to bring that up even though well that's made constantly on places like Twitter or Facebook it keeps getting pointed out but they can't face that contradiction staring them right in the face what about regulation regulation on businesses so even if you say well yeah the free market is generally good but we sort of need the state to regulate them on behalf of the consumer how do you what convince people that a libertarian anarchist society regulation would be met better there than it would on behalf of the state regulations among businesses you know we see regulations this is trying to weed out inefficiencies right we don't want to run business as smooth as possible as a cost prohibitive as possible and so that the expenses don't accrue when you have a lot of problems when you have a lot of complaints that drives up the cost of doing business and with business-to-business also is a big marketplace chair that that takes place and there's a lot of rules and contracts that they have with one another to ensure the flow of business if there are sort of disputes among them is long so regardless of like our relationship with the state and other businesses businesses and businesses themselves like insurance companies have a lot of rules so that's already in to put into place among each other in the event that their client injured and one of the other clients to make this very fast because time is money and and they resolve these sort of manners uh rather quickly efficiently you know versus going to a court case with the state for something criminal and that came you know take years and doesn't necessarily you know civil cases in a criminal case this actually should be the same thing right so violation property rights you know but these are things of lissa state can interject themselves to be an arbitrator when you know without any input or of interest of the people this force themselves into those kind of situations but you can look at it places like eBay PayPal and they usually a misappropriation of funds somebody who no accent to your account but uh Bank of America for example and you report it you know they'll credit you back the money and they'll send it to their investigation fraud seem right you know brother if you whereas if you report that to the police call 9-1-1 and there's nothing i'll do you know you don't see that money and that's that's what it does it doe take down the report but you know that's as far as it gets for them so the market has done uh i would say a concern of a good job creating I only call it regulations just maybe forms rules of efficiency in terms of you know people say regulations I call them when government says these are regulations what the government does is actually market restrictions they restrict the flow of efficiencies of how businesses can interact with their customers and with one another and that sort of costs when you look at this recent Ruppert report has cost mobility like over 60% you know this is why you're like over 60% poorer today because decades of market restrictions of the government has place because these restrictions add up the costs add up and that has to go somewhere and that goes to the prices and salaries of everyone else they can't build the government so yeah I think not i think i mean there's evidence for that high trust societies and anarchist this community helps to you know you find out you look at a places like in japan crime and stuff like that it's not extensively hide but they have a high trust society a lot of them have the same kind of culture you know they have that kind of internal efficiency of rules that they already understand and it's not kind of foreign or the worldly to them and i think that helps a lot too and i would say here in the united states Western culture has a good high trust in terms of that in the valley so we share it makes it easier for transactions and trade online even to get there which is a summation because it's great keep somebody I've never met and you can have the rating system rating systems or a great thing tourists that you try to do a rating system with the government you know it always be like negative 1 or negative half a star you're an approval radius of these politicians you know down like a little lower than 10% and so they're there so in office right you know and they can't shut down or ask any other business will go bankrupt you know so and worst of all they call themselves representatives like they represent it's absolutely sickening two more quick questions the ethics of emergencies often come up they'll say the entire state is justified in the welfare states justified an aggression is justified because if I'm starving I can initiate aggression to someone else's food to save my own life therefore the state is justified in doing those things which would arise in emergencies to avoid them how do you communicate to someone who responds to the state is illegitimate because ethical emergency yeah that's a good one the I'm starving so I could break into your house raid your fridge if you get in my way I get to hurt you that's perfectly fine hey I got cast a few but you find that are these situations of starvation famine emergency situations occur and country's going to that dead end zone of socialism you know inevitably it's these are unfunded liabilities you have the economic calculation problems in a rural collapse early but the ones that have spread their way through that finish line like on a nitro boost like Venezuela you have with that situation and now it's not the Marcos fault that's the government's fault that's socialism's fault that's you know you look at Mao's China the government centralization of production of Agriculture you know great Grady the Great Famine out there tens of millions dead parents eating their their children their sons and daughters is to survive cannibalize them and so you find time again the patter of history when you find these emergency situations are happening and these deep-seated socialist countries that inevitably fail and in Italy create those kinds of conditions in which yeah people ready so this throat there is it's more of a Night of the Living Dead which they're just tearing at everything in Venezuela they're tearing as zoos treat the animals there whereas here whatever is left that we have of capitalism before it's all gone you know there's no one starving in the United States the only reason anyone is starving United States is maybe out of a mental illness or parent or neglect for their children right here we have such a great abundance of food that you know you can go to McDonald's for a dollar and half they say like the most nutritional in terms of calories and what's in it at a price you have dozens and dozens the food banks churches play a great role in that philanthropy and you know you have anyone really if you ask hey I'm starving really hungry can can you can I get something to eat people say yeah sure you know you know we could go to any 7-eleven you know this things happen all the time so there's no less starving was this willful starvation or Prince would neglect or mental illness but for the most part there's plenty of plenty of food here whatever scuffs of capitals and that we have here in this country has done a good job a version that but if you really want to see those kinds of examples and you know go to Venezuela go to a socialist country you know do a trade trade to try to capless for socialist sort of thing right swap them out and I would say that uh you know when you ask them that you know if I'm starving you know why don't you ask you know hey it's kind of funny in those extreme scenarios you're not allowed to ask people for help right that's not an option for them you have to read someone's house you have to go into Mad Max Val you have to kick down the door shoot their dog and you know steal their lettuce and ramen noodles from the fridge you can't knock and say hey I'm really hungry dude can you help me out you can't do that's not an option in those kind of scenarios you can't ask your friends you can't ask a church you know you can't work for a job I think that's like a call something you can do right trade for food right no no in those scenarios that's not allowing this on permissible so these are sometimes like fantasies of children that they have of extreme examples that that don't happen like you know well kind of abundant rich society as us here in the United States but they do happen and the dead end of hell's hell Estelle escapes of socialism towards that end like Venezuela and other places that government has created that kind of feminist starvation like in Ukraine Hold'em or famine went to the millions of people dying you know purposefully man-made yeah if status just took that imagination they had for emergency ethics like they have such these wild imaginations about what would happen in the absence of a coercively funded monopoly but they like can not imagine how roads could be paved in the absence of a ruling class it's so selective and the case of Venezuela where it's like they have so much oil and the world wants oil and there's people starving there or Ukraine was known as the breadbasket of Europe before the Soviet Union invaded it and there was a starvation in the bread bath Europe only governments can create these things finally one last question what if you could have everyone in the world to read one book what would that book be one book oh Henry Hallett has its economics in one lesson I think it's a good primer coat understanding of many of these subjects and it's freely available you can go to leave a fee has it on the website and um you could kind of fun to find anywhere but I think it's a economics it's a good place to understand these sort of things and that's not something that government valleys and treasures themselves to have people have a good understanding because if they did you know you would have more of a commercial marketplace value of your high school diploma after what twelve years the government schooling you think that you'd be worth a little bit more than you know minimum wage as they say so yeah Henry Halleck Slits economics in one lesson is a good great great fantastic place to start that is the same exact book stephan kinsella recommended when i spoke with him on my channel so you great minds obviously think alike I remember reading in that book where he distinguishes the volunteer the public sector being the coercive sector and the private sector as the voluntary sector that was just a total mind opening moment and I was a conservative at the time so yes I absolutely recommend that that book as well I would say on stephan kinsella book against intellectual property would be along my personal top ten uh and so you know I'd add that to the my top ten list so yeah he's got a great uh essay book on the subject as well Cal thanks so much for uh for doing this interview I really appreciate your time give us your YouTube channel and your Twitter your Twitter handle and anything else so you want you want to let my audience know yeah you can find me on youtube on under my name Cal Mullen AKA el mo li and ET mike tribe the group of anarchists i hanging out with here in richmond is liberate our VA our VA stands for richmond virginia and yeah thank you so much for this opportunity to talk it's always fun to discuss anarchism philosophy and the like so yeah stay liberated Keith thanks so much take care




Comments
  1. There are freaky people, who really don’t know what they want in their life and put stupid things in their head, like anarcho capitalism…

    How do they get on this?
    They have seen a commercial movie, and the commercial movies works, so they put in their head, that they want more money…
    Their tax letter is coming in their mailbox, and they make a logical calculation, if they did not pay taxes, than they should have so much more money…
    And then it comes emotional: frustrations, greed, gluttony, anger… I WANT ANARCHO CAPITALISM

    Than is the ration gone like dust in the wind…
    A complicated industrial society needs administration, to arrange that.
    In a complicated society we taking it for granted, that we just have to pull on a tap, and we have water… But how the water get in their bathroom? That is a too difficult question… yes to answer such a question, you must think… the technical part, the administration, nepotism for who may do the job…
    Those freaky hardcore believers pass the rational side and take immediately the emotional side: if it was anarcho capitalism, it should be better water…
    How should they know this, if they even not know how the water gets in their bathroom in a system with a government?
    So, know first how it works in the current system, before you can know how it’s should work in a fairy tale system…

    Anarcho capitalism is a enormously emotional believe system, the emotion in this writted started not with the tax letter, but with the commercial movie…

    If you look at it rationally, do you really need more money????
    If it’s really so, you can prostitute yourself…so you can buy things from the marketing society that you hate so much, so you gone be really happy…

  2. If anarchy is so astounding and extraordinary, why do many individuals reject it? Most of the people I have met throughout my life, tell me anarchy is foolish and can never work.

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