Is Communism a Utopia?

now Karl Marx when he discussed the idea about communism didn't really write much about transitional society and we have actually in the last hundred years accumulated an enormous amount of information and experience positive and negative on the ideas concepts and practices of transitional societies whether it be in the Soviet Union or China or Cuba or even countries where social democracy intervenes heavily to ameliorate the worst elements of capitalism like Richard Sweden France Germany and so on so we do have an enormous amount of experience which allows us a knowledge which allows us to assess what alternative methodologies should be applied in a transitional economy moving from capitalism to socialism well first you must identify what economic entities do dominate the economy so really they'll have to look babs at the stock market from chairs market and look at which the biggest companies are and which have the most influence on the number of employees on the investment decisions on the everyday impact upon society on the environment upon transportation upon healthcare education and so on take what we considered to be as a society what is necessary to control for the interests of the population and then expropriate them now there can be different ways doing once you've transferred these big companies and banks into public ownership how do you continue to expand that public sector and make it efficient efficient in the sense that angles said in 1847 in his pamphlet the principles of communism efficient such that you out come eat the cap that is competition that's the question how does the public sector out complete the private sector now there are two ways I believe you do this one is through establishing mechanisms of democratic control which allow great inputs of skill knowledge energy and creativity through harnessing the latent energies and abilities of the workforce and of the consumer of the goods produced by the workforce through democratic structures of planning the administrative and productive and material design of goods and the use and variation of the goods and the means of disseminating disseminated Goods and organizing the production process so once you've worked those type of structures up we don't believe what we call workers councils in other words democratically administered management and elected management by the workforce so if the management doesn't do the policies that the workforce wants then they can be removed enabling and facilitating the use of creativity and public ownership of the commanding heights and the mechanism of transferring the balance of power such that the biggest industries and sections of the economy are publicly owned and acquire capital from capitalism in other words they are able to outstrip have the missed operations the other way you could do it is to systematically favor the public sector for example if you have railways transporting goods around the country in England is not doing much of that anymore but where you have that railways transporting goods around the country the way in which you can favor the public sector is to make a pricing system for example serve the public rather than the private so for example if a private newspaper like Rupert Murdoch's Times newspaper wanted to distribute their newspapers by train from London to Glasgow sending 30,000 newspapers to Glasgow what we can do is charge Rupert Murdoch more money to transport his coach load of newspapers to Scotland so much more money for his carriage to transport the newspapers that we can also transport baby milk paid for by the public sector to be distributed for free Engler in Edinburgh or Glasgow to women in need who are unable to pay for it paid for by the charge we levy on Rupert Murdoch's newspapers going on the train and in their trade the public sector can be used to redistribute wealth from the private sector through the public sector in the People's Republic of China over the last 20 years they gradually allowed the Postal Service's to be run by different companies DHL went in there I believe some British companies went in there FedEx went in there and not this year the Chinese government decided they would no longer allow that and so what they did was they nationalized the entire Postal Service's in China such that you're an old only allowed to distribute or send goods in weight over 50 grams via the state and in this way they acquire the capital the private and the mud private money that would have been spent on FedEx and the rest of these services now gets paid to the state if you workers council if you refer government-run by workers councils on medicine if the administration of the commanding heights of the economy is run by workers councils and checked and controlled by the consumer which is the general population of course then there must be some forms of administrative hierarchy established it's not to create a society without any hierarchical structure whatsoever otherwise no decision will ever get made what we're saying is if you elect a structure of that same a workers Council of 10 they can decide not only either to administer the company themselves but also to appoint Daniel here to administer on their behalf they could decide to appoint a committee of 50 people to administer on their behalf that's certainly hang on was that the argument you are so again you're saying 10 people can do this 50 can do that again you're creating cells different cells based upon democratic control and administration and recall ability to those people who elected them and which are serving by the public and not the private sector the svr of this argument is circular because you're we're talking about the transition to socialism that's right and so what you say is that you take things from the private sector accumulate into the public sector but your solution for doing this is having a country that's run by vice workers councils by soviets and so in that case you've ordered the transitions already been made as i said earlier in running it from soviets then it's been that's been done you need a state that's got the state has a monopoly on violence that's true that's a fact now they're not going to allow wealth to be redistributed in that way unless you have owned the power of the state well I don't deny been abolished I so now that surely that's the first step then not a few minute earlier on that I left that question aside the question of the state because that is a question about revolution and I wasn't in particular discussing the question of making a revolution I was discussing the question of how an economy that is dominated by public ownership can be run efficiently that was the question I was asking because I thought what's the point in making a revolution if you're going to end up with an efficient system so first you have to explain to people at least the some degree how that system will be run and that it will be as the gentleman asked me earlier on that it will be more efficient and more productive than capitalism otherwise what's the point in making a revolution you know so it ends up like East German it what's the point what happened to the transition then are we are we're not talking about that yes we're talking about the transition the transition is not the revolution the transition is the phase after a revolution okay where the public sector systematically acquires the resources necessary to provide plenty for all of mankind and that laid the foundation according to Marx his concept for the creation of a communistic order of society

  1. The Rich have all the wealth on the backs of the poor and vulnerable by keeping down wages and also by not paying there fair share of tax that is why the government are cutting welfare and taking off the poor and vulnerable, it is disgusting how the Conservative Government are providing a utopia for the Rich .

  2. one day the collective fire of the revolution will reanimate lenin, and he will bust out of that glass coffin and he will save the world.

  3. A very wise man said "it is always hard to predict anything, espically the future" … And thats the problem with Marx !! It is one thing that he gave a very correct describsion of time past but thats not the same thing as predicting the future … Marx was a HUMAN BEING and as such he could/would be mistaken …. He is not a god, he wiped his ass after shite like you, he had a wank every now and then, he pressed a pimple too … The reality he faced back then is no longer the same, we the working pop has got loads of Things to Loose besides the chains !! And also I hate to point out that THE BIGGEST popular uprising ever seen in Europa was to BRING DOWN the socialist countrys … Not to abolish capitalism,as Marx would predict,but to GET capitalism western European kind !! Truth !!

  4. I won't even go far to say that China is moving toward capitalism because most of the big corporations are owned by the State. Although there might have small businesses that operate in the sense of capitalism, majority of power is still rest on the state.

  5. @ipwnorcs My evidence is looking at the debt that Medicare and Medicaid are in. Last I saw it, the debt was 400 million.

  6. But the one thing is that the "public" sector is run by the government, and as you can see with Medicare and Medicaid, they don't run those projects efficient at all. So for you to think that taking private sector companies and making them into public sector companies, your mad.

  7. To which successful societies are you referring? If the "short lived" examples you give were successful, then why were they short lived?

    By my definition of successful, the society has to be able to defend and sustain itself.

  8. @TheForwardGaze I disagree. What happened in China, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Viet Nam and Cuba are due to the flaws in communist theory that become apparent once one attempts to apply communism in practice. The fact that communism has never been successfuly implemented in the real world is compelling evidence that the theory is unworkable.

    Also, please don't ride the old communist hobbyhorse that only the greedy, ignorant or deluded can oppose it. Its a cheap debating trick.

  9. @TheForwardGaze That's because Americans who have had any contact with the real world realize that communism has been a monstrous, murderous failure in every single case of its actual application.

    Also, Americans don't criminalize public political discourse of any sort short of treason, unlike the Europeans.

  10. This is not so much about whether or not Communism is Utopian as it is about the Socialist economy and the out competition of Capitalism.

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