“Hackers,” The New Communists? (with Tor Ekeland)

it’s cysts on the phone that we have for excellence who is a brooklyn based lawyer
representing both andrew weaver armand hammer and matthew
cheese thank you for joining us to our ought to be here and so it’s not let’s get started right
here with some with a andrew well who goes by and your armed
hamas case he goes by a by we’ve online at believe yes we’ve and down
when it was the escort okay great let’s set let’s start with them just blew it what exactly is being was the alleged
doing and uh… what with with the uh… what where judges prosecutors charging him with of a century restructure org with
conspiracy uh… commit unauthorized access to protect its computer and uh…
another account of our photo identity fast and essentially what happened in
cisco defended dentists but player who public guilty and you you know
applicable to deal with the government uh… dennis paper and i think what we
make a of two thousand tonight when the ipod uh… came out dis covered that if you querida a_t_t_’s i packed emails servers uh… but what
it was essentially a costume idea number you know as a sim card um… number
imported right on the sim card uh… if u court eighteen g_s service with that number and it actually
matched a sim card number of an actual customer a_t_t_’s i’ve had servers with publish a login window and they’re not login
window would be that customers addressed and then it would be a passport prop or
you could into the pot a password so spiller ended up on a writing a script
that there’d be discounted off numbers you-know-what want to kary four five six and if she it servers with a a number that wasn’t a
customer number nothing happened at indy kicked off a
bit after password apex but if they had an actual your customer number them dot customers email just was
published in a especially compal vocals but they could compile a list of about
roughly two hundred fourteen thousand email addresses and andrew we’ve to look that list incentive because director
helicopter creepy interpreted redacted form skillful simpson e-mails to some
members in the media that he found on the list saying a you know we discovered
this if you have to imitate a_t_t_’s i dot e mail servers uh… are doing about roughly about a week later at the
f_b_i_ kick in the store guns drawn in arkansas and arrested him uh… and uh… we went to trial was a
guilty verdict on november twentieth two thousand twelve is now been sense to you forty one month and president around
uh… seventy thousand dollars restitution seventy three thousand dollars what yeah that that’s based on any of the fact that he can’t keep
sent out the date direct mailing to inform all its customers even though
it sent emails to them like a week earlier uh… himself like this pierce
but realistic about the cost of the uh… a_t_t_’s direct mailing to its
customers so this is aspects of the slightest
madam what you’re saying is that this that but they did basically uh…
we uh… we use and uh… his uh… and in a statement is that what they did was big dick this
it was all publicly accessible information there was no breaking of any sort of security system
in eighteenth year anything of that sort but that is absolutely correct and that
if i could came out at trial that uh… they can’t see it made a conscious
businesses billion that have things set up that way you know they knew they could have
password protected email addresses but they decided for customer convenience
but they going to do it c soul-searching you all that’s
happening here is you’ve got numbers being entered a new you are l and it’s querying a publicly accessible
server that if you can edit a trial was available to anybody with an internet
connection and then now you got a felony identification rather scary uh… you know for all of a computer
users because i think at this interpretation of the year computer fraud abuse actors correct will then metric tons of
americans are committing a a computer felony everyday did usery’s laura or a daniel us devoted either them
contact eighteen t beforehand or data or ontop also additionally didn’t take at
least emails those enough to the public or just a the different op i believe it was a doctor who was who
wrote the original story they virtually give information to you but it’s my understanding that we didn’t contact eighteen key uh… agent he
found out about it from one of it subscribers that read email uh… and remembered email addresses
there was no like email downloaded no like private information is purely about uh… email addresses and then be only
the last action to lift that uh… editor supposedly are transferred to
protocol correction never uh… produced it comparable it got destroyed any other
person couple it was and i think the theory behind not going two eighteen p with these guys with a
century that you know if you go to these corporations
and put these things out there quite often to bury it and you can’t get it fixed right away
yes whereas eighteen to synovate dot all this prompted you know fixed up really
fast court courses after that yeah wouldn’t it didn’t seem to say that i am debate today say that there was anything
short of all-out loss on their end any sort of i mean pleaded eighteen t wanna
pursue this do you know a_t_t_ idle picker behind this prosecution there’s an email
that came out it you know trolley we put into evidence
where you know early on the f_b_i_’s
contacting eighteen p aunt uh… eighty g lead more one of the lead
investigators in this matter just said you know idle siya kay cyr i’ll pick a crime was committed you know
you’ve got a poorly in a designed email system eduto i don’t i i think what
could be harmless prosecutors really that you know that the o_j_ really wanted to take and rotten nearly dead uh… i don’t think a_t_t_ really was
uh… you know an aggressive force behind this prosecution seems like in the way when i get any
additional precedence and i i completely could see that what went on as one of them to what set this past
uh… because monday the eighteen th that or not he was uh… sentence to the
uh… for nine months in prison and or to pay the senate and house
restitution uh… i was reading some of the details
that prosecutors were trying to somebody does in terms of which the ah… prosecutors were trying to portray we’ve
could you go into some detail about that i thought i was just unbelievable e interested well you know it’s going to bring your
laboratory about you know the character of the uh… defended and what not to read it very
much i mean witness infamous internet role
may be much more to come on that point eight you know we’re pulling out emails where
do you have that made him look bad to you know it’s like you can really i
could tell it the conduct of the you know what you would like to tell them
out of his you know gmail account and and and logistics we tried to make him you know look like a horrible person
who’s city do you know how to make rack
everyone’s lives in a kind of money on the internet you you know what have you you know that
kind of hard verbally that quite often a lot of people to be difficult talk with idea kind of that pull out of context below that i think
in the courtroom and and just use people unit which ran into still horrible
threat to the republic that needs to be walked up for everyone to safety
basically occurred i was reading through it used is he did i i i am i right at the night
before just to talk about his uh… this trial on the they use that against him
because she talked about his regrets of what he did and how he would have done
it if you go back and an industry unbelievable stuff earlier paper admired and prepared to
have you you know uh… widely admired magnitude water that we did it and he
did that when they were introducing that’d cortney eight oh uh… but i think you open the that you
notice or consent uh… who you know he was at all to the
american uh… you know you just be kept rolling and
you know uh… greatly interesting individual
house so at least that’s uh… when they come along with a spa now that the
sentiments on this but that they’ve explains that the transcript decided to
try to frame him as a actor and to me that’s a waste is not a
bit about backing community the transcript she is usually used as as
a derogatory term mackey commuted because it’s not really hacking on top
of that uh… robust custody basically as i guessed it for our listeners is
like it’s someone who uses a program to basically you know just a bit dictated even create usually
two charges figure out information that even breaking into the system like for
example they use a a program to just guess random keywords to try it out find
out what your password his complete guesswork and and the fact that she
didn’t even union like presentacion even half that cassidy
passwords anything like that that that the scripting that they use the serb
leader too quickly games publicly accessible information and is
unbelievable to me that they even brought this time up scripts kitty as
they track on the hacker when this is such a it is back at all yeah i think there’s a big disconnect
uh… you know uh… sort of the in didn’t do the understanding their
alluded to talk about what’s going on in there computerworld in agriculture and uh…
you know i mean they’re turner were the case uh… they’re trying to
portray him as uh… some sort of secure precipitated actor and i think the artesia pointing
out is that really it wasn’t any kind of super sophisticated what
exactly yes it is welcome back you know because the act i think really just
implied that your you know which try to bypass a password or you’re changing
code or something uh… this wasn’t even that it was just
a a public query to a vocal critic couple server so what what’s what’s the at dysentery with what’s that but where we go from here with this case
what is that the metro editor we’ve them we’re uh… file aeronautical appeal
today it we got a great appellate team or core whose logically would be like the can
popular la scala country director of all a conspiracy hillary wrote computer what his bookies working on the uh… appeal for free global and actually i think he will be will be
posted appealable conspiracy lawyer this afternoon uh… you know about sort of the uh…
what we what like you to try to take the case in the issues that he thinks are boarded we’ll also uh… hooked up with for the
electronic frontier foundation answer cisco your
marshall hoffman uh… in the yard recovery over there so
we’ve got a really good about you know we’re original killers psa we’re all the way up the ladder for
camping out there great uh… effect yet is it that they’re great
organization um… before we jumped up dot matthew cheese cakes i when i could
we just touch upon i was reading through the air because you can call it the uh… well
is this the um… uh… they should be cheering up ruling
that came out and he said the same really making outside uh… i read that
i wasn’t doing one thing that struck me as very interesting without are you
argued how inaamta another case that’s coming on going on jeremy hamin skates
jerry we havent is the uh… individual who’s being accused of the uh… the
shot for leaks the jd by the judge in that case judge
loretta prescott she was uh… as to remove herself in the case at because her husband’s dot email
address and those whose clients were part of the at the shop for the shot for
a week there that you know just what are the
leak um… she said that she uh… would not be remove yourself in
the case because the emails were publicly available information and they
do not injure her husband so im emmy and then you argue that if if if she has this uh… if the court has
this uh… his outlook on these emails how can they
not have the same outlook on these emails inot in determining reeves
offense level what i mean yeah i get you you know addresses colored day was the name of an
act of are tossing email to led his armies that email addresses you know
it’s not even a hitting tai chi chi do it to people do it naturally but it’s
there was like no submit content that they got our anyone’s communications
cheerleader thirteen-hour draft which i consider to be just like a street
address in his attempt to use to communicate publicly all the time you’re sending them all over the place not like your
passcode hirata part they played email address is art a big deal you you know um… toad yeah i mean that’s what we call
that in mammoth caves in and we decided to do to argue that the sent link stressed the masons tunis tunisia hypocritical that fair um… pegasus jessica you got it uh… so i decided to cut you off
blockages i mean i i i think one of the things you don’t like with this
particular people second cup in interstate the identity perpetuate a
king uh… yesterday ten twenty eight a
talented assets abroad definition of uh… what a means of identification
if you could get people bid to go to but at the possession of transfer
remains identification in furtherance of another crime and i discussed the third their crime
because of the proposals cannot won a prize package but it it sort of like again there’s no real harm here yet
you’ve got these a felony penalties uh… because of this and i think the computer statutes are are a little to cali in a new penalties when
there really isn’t any reall you know harm uh… solstice sunset messages on he’s justice justice is also just in
the news just happen dot you see the indictment off wheelers last out thursday or friday thursday at legal
thursday roaming a lot of people known as the uh… reuter social media had
very few that goes by our producer matthew are the messages on twitter basically ah… give us give us what but
uh… they’re letting him he was doing and what charges he’s received uh… he’s pictures to get out of the
computer probably start you know it can u_s_ kicked out of ten thirty but at
different section other and it’s not the that is what is the three condiment to
be uh… what he’s been charged for is and the transmission of uh…
information essentially gene damage a protected
computer candidacy f_a_a_ and even a microchip of the protection
of djibouti and and we have a good definition of the car to computers just into sfo no parking on and to protect
the computer uh… and they’re alleging that what he did
eventually is after he was fired allegedly fired uh… permanent job
uh… believing website sacramento for africa tribune company buzzing about a month later he was in a
fire c roma internet bedfordshire very notorious higher steel drum uh… and that he past username and password from the
tribute to somebody in that were on at they eventually were able to of sort of pc this article that was a poor appearing on the l_a_ times once tonight antonio on one page attitude in very
short article on tax cuts where somebody just changed in the words like the names
from you know whatever bob smith chickpea one-two-three-four um… i mean
it’s not even clear to me that that’s damage the statute but now it’s been at the
uh… he’s facing a maximum of the twenty five years in
jail cell to kitty felde dollars in fines um… you know again but you know they
like to pay the degenerate like to say oh well you won’t you know what the
courses that i would have gotten second devotees stop felony cal you know there’s a bill in the past and
as an ideal husband died as a fellow in tow uh… you know what would you get if he’s convicted i i
don’t know me one-two-three but spill you know the candidates and uh… you know i believe him in order to vegas relitigate that want
with the interesting thing about what you could possibly faces that i was
reading online that for example let’s say some somebody did do this and and they’ve received just the same the
same uh… since harjit that matthews uh… they would they would have
received uh… less charges less finds less
prison time if they just walked in and as a as a way
that to show their older uh… company off he just assaulted his box you have received let area well it’s a good point so that they were
the atlantic terrible are part of that out and how do you uh… recovery effort
pointed it out there that you know if you would have been be
wouldn’t hurt a lot of television descon t_v_ you know out of the l_a_ times
odinga defaced it with a paper t because if i would’ve been a misdemeanor
of california law didn’t work at home and we got it you know a couple of years
in the and the people of northern fine and yes for this is weird sort of disconnect you know a lot of
people talking like this people already polluted uniden two years of this is where did connect to having
really hard-core counties in these computer laws that
don’t drive with our normal your physical notions of in a punishment for
serious crimes like early fifties splash with a huge picture to a lot
statute or a postdoc par with whatever they did assault and rape in you you
know a man plotter and and and what not you know i think we need to take a step
back and get that really rewarded in in you you know in the
majority situations sure maybe if you’ve got any pac
whatever the defense department computer brought down a financial implications
computer and new wreak havoc on the economy around national security after you know people
like that but and you know it’s kind of stopped his
car detailer people did in her everyday typical taken turn it into a felony as is undergoing a replica of a little
danger interesting thing about that is on they see people acquitting it’s you know
like if you if you went out what we see what when he’s being charged with doing
is equal to if you went out and you know sprayed graffiti on a wall but the
interesting thing there is and correct me if i’m wrong he’s not even being
charged with doing the actual defacing hitler could complete the conspiracy
charge in the in the call you know conspiracy the prosecutors
french so do you know he’s not going to go to actually having done anything
charged with u_n_ turning into a uh… a conspiracy to do it uh… united conspiracy just have to
have a uh… an agreement to logic is illegal and at
one over act in furtherance of that uh… you you know agreement to commit a
criminal act so it’s it back to find that uh… unit located in as strong but you know this bill did you know to be tough to beat
district hard to get to that computer fraud and
abuse act specifically the before that’s one last question about that and that is
promises on birth uh… always a notice that our park a
lot of uh… a lot of different uh… uh… articles are pointing out that
uh… there was a attorney back from our march
of twenty eleven from the mandatory sa anonymous hacker turned
f_b_i_ informant are sad bill who has been outed as i have to receive
your uh… months a year and dont that did this did this it did this outing stem from a we did it
did the charges stem from a sad to adding
him online or was this being looked into before you know i don’t know it’s so early in
the case daria i haven’t uh… well you know who had a chance to do i get all
the discovery and i don’t know at this point and that’s a good question but just don’t uh… a lot of factual
basis for internet right now basically okay straight things just sarcastically
madam it’s it’s interesting to me that all
these packing cases seem to be carly xox packing prosecution cases have been a
posturing hackers have been coming from uh… sanderson subbu was bitterness
f_b_i_ formatting the scottish tend to be incredible sorry i i find it really interesting to
believe me it’s something will be around we’re looking into at so let’s let’s
let’s jump too quickly to on that the c_s_ a specifically evening without quickly and briefly just
add i guess give us an overview of all what it is and um… how it’s being used against i
mean it was most famously used are in our got delayed by iran supports his
case uh… he was facing what was and i think thirty five years
in prison under the sea f_a_a_ for basically arm going into uh… m_i_t_ of m_i_t_
causing connecting his laptop today rocked their network an ass and
accessing like a mass amount of our potluck lee accessible academic journals
and he’s amazing thirty five years for that’s also what is the sakti and i was
it was the same house being has to be used against these people well out of the computer part of your
sector related to the in roughly nine credits eighty-four and before the
internet before its too creepy dude you should go i’ve called i thought i’d let
you know everything and other patriot was designed to
protect you know federally protected computers you know and i had major
economic institutions and then slowly overtime budgets amended um… and it doesn’t number strengthening
paying lectures section that you’re seeing most this prosecution for
supporting our highmark is it forbid unauthorized access to protect computer
whether study for a particular suspecting a microchip accommodated that it doesn’t define
anywhere what unauthorized access is mean and so you’ve got the courts all over
the country have different definitions of it you know some people like oh just
violating the terms of service of uh… you know website mean that operate
factors which others extremely dangers interpretation uh… eighty percent
rwandan everyone’s really committing a felony everyday uh… become like this to pool of the p_l_o_ j
for her because it’s a malleable and i think so so broad and and and and uh…
vague form you know prosecuting anybody’s that you’ve done
anything that they because a lot going on with the computer uh… and i think it needs to be amended
lenders via fax is working on that a number of people are trying to tickets statute under control uh… it’s it’s funny how r i’ve been
reading on somebody yes at this time it and especially i i mean today is the
uh… seven year anniversary of twitter being uh… launched and i i found it
interesting how they named after all these big names in tack and just innovation entrepreneurs who
could have been and would have been probably tried under this this act him
if they were doing this today i mean steve jobs bill gates marks on their
word flood twitter founder jack dorsey just recently was talking about he got his start packing and again
packing is not necessarily uh… a bad time you could hack for good hack for
bad you just have to any product to hack a product you are unlike like how you could have ta an
xbox three sixty you purchased it to do something that that maybe it was not
originally uh… meant to do in the operating system but
you have a you know playing files from your computer or something it’s just amazing to me how they are
they’re trying to just turn the term hacking into this amazingly
negative i mean the press and people in general always had to say is
negative connotation packing overseeing and she’s missing years is just this
complete lack i can’t even explain what they’re doing
with this it’s just they’re just grabbing anybody who has any knowledge or saudi and
computers and technology and they’re trying to just try them under this act
it seems like an you know you are set up a quarter
attackers or the new communist lydia o_j_ had to get a lot of um… a russian orient here are out there
uh… because people don’t expand you you know what’s going on in in the
computer world uh… you know this was a big disconnect
all for florida contact by computers skinny researchers in in people like is
good data mining for the financial services industry freaking out about
these prosecutions uh… because uh… they just continue to be just normal
uh… muna computer behavior and so well you know this is the disconnection
people don’t understand about the computers the computer world rushing
writing these laws and the people who actually workin uh…
you know the computer world uh… nifty piece prosecution to inflame their rides soaking in the office today
about how uh… you know we will remember there
was a time when you know if you would they would find a hacker like that and
not like this at all an actual hacker who actually no founders a flaw in a
security system and broke in ways of the manage uh… access this
email back-end management system and how they
would find these people and they would you know use their savvy ness in their
intelligence to know if you cut a deal and use them like what what what happens
if we happen to something like that where they were deal cut uh… reasonable deal
with these people it would be just fill up all their their hacker job slots on down to understand
why there are propelled going full force on these people now in the usta you know at the very least offer them some sort
of uh… reasonable deal yeah i think it’s a paternity burgers early in his brother in their pets are
all there are currently really really good covered up but the governor
arm and i do you know and i i i think you
know what you have a lot of people commit to steve jobs bill gates didn’t
you know our it you know support elaborate computer it innovators big big
big gibbons step because that’s part of the
process with a warning uh… you know about computers and he
was going to end what not i think it’s a very fundamental to their ability to
innovate and i think at this prosecution to be
around uh… you know in the seventies you wouldn’t
have apple computer you wouldn’t have microsoft in you would have had a few
notes recover g_d_p_ uh… wouldn’t big yet so i think there’s economic in uh… what’s going on with the
prosecution’s but i think is bad for the country that the reading about about all this
happens not to me to is and i thought was a weird i just hypocritical against
just completely unbelievable dot com just just the end of last year the supreme court
i’ve declined to uh… review a lower lower court
ruling in a case that challenged a a bush era
law which is that the fis and then in fact which uh… basically back to our
family i gave telecommunications firms like ever-rising in eighteen t that they
give them a legal immunity uh… for performing by our wireless
wiretapping how can you say that eighteen t has the ability to
just no prospective customers privacy when an
individual camp publicly act access information that eighteen t is using
having to a_t_t_ is made available because they don’t prospective customers
privacy melanoma cryptic it’s a good question
you know and we look include p you know what third averting that uh… but got that uh… you know a grant of
immunity for her warrantless wiretapping on u_s_ citizens that served
up six st louis disturbing i decided really when i try to drive
home the point it’s it’s a list to listeners that omg i mean regardless of
what you think about you know someone like michael deaver matthew keys were
there you know internet histories or never did is two things going on here i think
it’s important drive home number one is that none of these cases are or are
hacking cases they’re just not hackers and and that’s what they’re basically
being tried for to the full extent of a lock and the number two is that is that these these laws are so soldier
connie in that regardless of whether you think uh… any hacker is guilty or not
guilty in their case the the the sentences they’re being dealt do not
fit the crime is that they’re being accused of and that’s why i try i think those are
the two important points are dr onto people ’cause i see you know a lot of
people talking about that these two cases to the most recent just hackers in
general ueno of they they have dared deserve to be punished or what not and i
think it’s important you know separate people actually do hacking from people
who just discover this just like you or me
co-discovered like what what we’ve been his ma what his partner and since i forgot his name did
basically of caterpillar getting the anyone of us could come across that is
the public a stat u r l and with matching shoes case i
mean that’s that’s matter hacking case and in terms of him
i’ve seen just so much you know and we have to just so much help uh…
negativity to their character amin you can think what you want i think it’s
important that important to drive home that that one these are hacking cases
but that that’s what they’re being perceived as and number two that
whatever you think they’re punishment should be what they’re being charged
which is not fit the crime s and as one thing i agree i think that the one thing i would add
to that of the people of so broad and a and uh… uh… they potemkin compass uh… you look
into your behavior burned by a required contributor by around that time of the
american league agent every day and the government historically always go back to leon
parker defend its first you know but people should be concerned about the public prosecutions deal also
brought into a vague invited arbiter prosecution by the government hispanic this is kids this summer and especially
in the we’ve case to me because i mean if viewer i came across this this
information they came across any maybe we wouldn’t have decided to pull the
information when they did but but the people said no dot that’s that
eighteen t and other companies that you’re paying money to and customers on
are all and you are customers out of just care
so little about your personal information in your privacy that they’re
willing to save a buck to just leave this information out there it took part or that clinton ice one out so i can can you get
something outside i dot dot dot dot dot moved so i sort of i’ve put wetland dot
or thank you so much for joining us i will be following the cases of bible way
where we use case goes from here and and that if she skates just
beginning thank you so much for joining us now well thank you for having a really
enjoyed it

  1. We are not Communists. We are peace. We are live. we see truth and we speak when it's needed. Most people are sheep and should be treated as such.

  2. when it comes to some [anonymous hackers], there are some marxist/communist ideas..

    one of which, is that intellectual property should not exist, copy rights, patents etc etc..

    But.. when it coems to that, marxism/communism.. may not be that bad of a idea.. Just because a philosophy is wrong most of the time does not mean it isn't right some of the time..

    Hell, sharia law MIGHT have something to offer as far as how loans should be handled..and I think they also believe in the gold standard..

  3. there are hypocrites in all groups.. ALL groups..

    If a CIA agent was approached by the Russian government to release information for millions of dollars, you don't think they would do it, or at the very least, contemplate it?

  4. You know just how fucked the country is when the governments biggiest fear is that somebody might find out it's secrets .

  5. Well… This may be an old video, but after this video was done…

    Andrew Auerheimer's conviction was meant to be served until early 2016. However a court of appeals vacated Auerheimer's sentencing in April 2014. The Appeals Court noticed, the case was tried in the wrong venue. Currently, Andrew Auerheimer lives in the country of Serbia, due to the fact, he fears the US may attempt to bring back the charges if he lived in the US.

    SADLY… Matthew Keys went to trial in early October 2015. A jury found him guilty of the charges he was indicted in 2013. His sentencing is scheduled for January 2016. This to my dismay, comes days after comedian and former Saturday Night Live alumni Andy Samberg (Also known as The Lonely Island on YouTube), was hosting the Emmy Awards For Prime Time Television and during a monologue, he GAVE AWAY The Username and Password for HBO GO. The fact is, HBO GO is only available to Cable TV subscribers that pays to watch HBO.

    How come, Comedian Andy Samberg who is a well known celebrity, compared to social media journalist Matthew Keys gets AWAY with a criminal activity, yet a person who has NEVER done such a wrongdoing, is facing as much as… 25 YEARS IN JAIL? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? What kind of INJUSTICE is this Government doing? I'm in complete dismay as of October 7, 2015. The INJUSTICE that the DOJ did to Matthew Keys shall not go in the forgotten books of law!

    The only thing that remains, is the appeals process and still holding HOPE that Matthew Keys will be cleared of the INJUSTICE done against him… Did I mentioned, the hacktivist that really committed the LA Times hack, still a FREE MAN?

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