Fox News: Rape Victims Must Take 'Personal Responsibility' for Drinking Too Much

a Fox News panel yesterday agreed that women need to take personal responsibility for avoiding rape by not drinking too much there was an interview on WaMu on the Diane Rehm Show were former George Washington University President Stephen Joel Trachtenberg argued that women should be trained not to drink in excess so that they could be in a position to punch the guy in the face if he tries to rape her and Trachtenberg later said the goal was not to shift the blame to the victim so of course this morning on outnumbered Fox News decides to tackle this exact same issue and they asked Lou Dobbs was there anything wrong with saying that and Lou Dobbs apparently the new arbiter on gender equality and and domestic violence I don't know how he became an expert on that he is asked to opine and he says the following some men take advantage of women who drink too much and also that women shouldn't drink so much because you could potentially be putting yourself in a dangerous situation should this be controversial what he said I don't think so as a father of two sons two daughters I will tell you the last thing you want is any child a boy a girl that doesn't matter to be defenseless and when if you don't teach your kids and pray that they learn to never ever take on additional vulnerability to just the everyday life in this society you know why should there be anything controversial about it losing control of oneself exposing oneself and creating tremendous vulnerability is to me a disastrous choice for anyone to make boy or girl what about people that say well you know it's like saying well women are drunk that if somehow justification for rape I mean what about that argument that says no matter what a woman does I don't care how much she drinks that's not justification for bad behavior from a man well personal responsibility is I think also what Lou is alluding to is very important in all of this no so at this point eventually co-host liz claman did remind the panel that they're kind of ignoring the man role in preventing rape which is really simple if a man doesn't try to rape someone it doesn't matter what the girl is wearing it doesn't matter whether she's been drinking or not if the man doesn't try to rape I think that this whole thing about if women shouldn't be drinking to avoid being in a position to be raped men shouldn't drink to aggravate the possibility that they would rape someone else right I mean why is it only the women Louis that need to be not drinking yeah if you think that trying to reduce rapes on on the other side of the issue is impossible I guess this is the the conclusion you come to but certainly it would there would be fewer rapes if I we won't deny that there would be fewer rapes if people weren't getting wasted all the time on different campuses and whatnot and that applies to the rapist and the victim yeah yeah but but it certainly is not trying to solve the bigger problem no and this reminds me of when some people said you know what those Jennifer Upton and Kate Upton and Jennifer Lawrence rather if they hadn't taken these pictures in the first place then they wouldn't have had the pictures stolen while it's factually true that some rapes wouldn't happen if a woman wasn't drunk or the pictures wouldn't have been stolen if the pictures didn't exist we live in a system of laws where it is against the law to rape and it is against the law to hack into people's pictures so while we can play the it wouldn't have happened if let's remember it wouldn't have happened if someone didn't break the law and sexually assault someone it wouldn't have happened if someone didn't break the law and hack into pictures right and you're not helping the situation really when you distract from from the real issues and from what's really happening which is let's focus on as a society that there are rapes happening and what can we do to prevent people from raping others let's take a break the great author Joe Haldeman joins me next

  1. It's illegal to enter someone's home and steal their possessions, yet I still lock my door rather than tell them 'please don't steal from me'. This is simple stuff.

  2. how about a little less of the whole "teach women (and men) to stop provoking rape by going out for a drink" concept, and a little more of the "teaching your shitty kids to not grow up and think it's okay under any circumstance to drug/rape people."

  3. CAN WOMEN EVER TAKE RESPONSIBILITY? I lock my house before leaving my house to make it harder for a robber to gain access. A rapist (NOT A MAN) goes about his business of raping like a robber looks out for an unsecure house.What the owner of a house should do is to secure their property. When a girl goes out staggering at night from drunkenness and wearing skimpy dress, a rapist will be glad to take advantage. You can blame a rapist because that's what they do. Educating men will not dissuade a rapist as life sentence will not deter a murderer.Life as it is, is different from life as it should be. WOMEN – LEAVE MEN ALONE. GO TO YOUR NEW HUBAND (GOVT) AND NAG THEM TO INTRODUCE MORE LAWS

  4. The part where fox actually got this wrong is that drunk women are rarely"victims".  Getting drunk and having sex with someone is not rape.  It's just poor decision making.  You don't see men crying rape when they get fucked up and sleep with a woman they otherwise wouldn't.

  5. Drinking enough to be completely wasted is a stupid idea, quite apart from the issue of rape, which, of course is more likely to be the guy's fault as he is the one with the greater physical power. How people can wake up the following morning feeling totally wrecked and not realise that they have poisoned their bodies is beyond me.

  6. Isn't it true and always applicable that any woman should be personally responsible to avoid situations where the potential for rape is increased?  Are you stating that women are like children and are incapable of adequate judgment regarding their own debilitating consumption of chemical substances?  Alcohol always increases the likelihood of criminal behavior, injury, and misjudgment toward anyone in the immediate vicinity.  Are you trying to say that Fox is blaming women for rape?  I disagree, they may be stating that women need to get drunk in safe environments- which is true. I have been on the scene in the Universities and Colleges I attended and no one should be raped, but no one should voluntarily get drunk and pass out  on a campus lawn either. Women are not children.  Fox should encourage women to use their best judgment when they choose to get drunk, it is common sense.

  7. It's sad that this must be said. Everyone is responsible for their own behavior, regardless of whether you're drunk or not. Drunk women are responsible for their own behavior, and drunk women are responsible for their own safety and well-being. Here's a real easy way to avoid getting raped while you're passed out and drunk. Either A) don't get so drunk that you've passed out on the floor or B) get shit-faced at home where you're safe. No man is responsible for keeping an irresponsible and shit-faced woman safe. Rape may be a horrible crime, but if I, as a man, got so drunk that I passed out on the street, and someone stole my wallet while I was drunk, then I would deserve what I got.

  8. Fox News has a problem with party people who like to drink. They think that people like that should have more responsibility. I can agree with that. Lazy party goers. The world's REAL losers.
    But I can't agree with them treating rape victims like it's 100 percent their fault. That's ridiculous.

  9. If a drunk driver gets in an accident and is the one at fault because they chose to get behind the wheel while intoxicated, why is a woman who chose to drink and have sex not held responsible for their decision?

  10. It occurs to me that when an old movie or cartoon has racist elements or stereotypes, it's never aired or made available again, except in the critical context of "look at this racist garbage from the past."

    But old movies which overtly perpetuate rape culture, for instance Animal House and M*A*S*H* (the movie), enjoy perpetual popularity and continue to be aired on network TV to this day.

    Yeah, YOU remember that, Pakman, next time you're whining about deporting illegals

  12. I agree fully with Pakman…rape is against the law whether someone who may rape is drunk or not or if the victim is or not.  Period. 

  13. So I guess David Pakman thinks that giving women solutions as to how to avoid being taken advantage of is a bad thing because they aren't directly focusing on the male role? That is stupidity. No one telling women to be careful thinks that men never have to take responsibility, but telling women how to avoid bad situations will reduce the chance of being raped. Does he actually think that telling people not to rape is the ultimate solution? I mean, really?

    Saying "it wouldn't have happened if someone didn't break the law" is utterly pointless because it offers no solution other than "let's tell people that rape is really really bad", as if they didn't know that before.

    Now to be clear, I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to prevent rape by teaching people of the penalties for it and the effects it can have. But trying to prevent it by teaching people how to defend themselves is most certainly needed more. Look at all the murders the US has, you think that sensitivity courses for potential murderers will solve anything? Or will training people how to avoid bad situations and how to defend themselves in an attack solve anything. You be the judge, but it's pretty clear.

    Again, people who think that training women to defend themselves and avoid bad situations is "victim blaming" just make the situation worse. I don't usually go for Fox News, but they were right in this case.

  14. The argument is the same as saying "If your stereo gets stolen you have to take responsibility for having breakable windows". It just doesn't make any sense. Drinking makes you easier to rape but the violation is still on the rapist. What if they were sober and just not strong enough to fight their attacker off, do they have to take responsibility for not being trained in martial arts? Ridiculous.

  15. Faux 'news' trying to blame the victims of rape, for said rape. I'd say this is total bs, but really this is to be expected from fn.

  16. There is a fine line between between that type of rape and two drunk kids having sex.  If someone is passed out, I would hope people can see this is always wrong to take advantage.  However, it becomes very grey when a woman claims rape the next day claiming she really didn't really want sex, she was just drunk.  If two people are drunk, not passed out, how is one to know if it is consensual.

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