Darren ‘Loki’ McGarvey on poverty, personal responsibility and rap



so can we begin with actually talking about your own experience I mean he had a very hard childhood at what point did you realize how hard it was I think I realized that when I started to talk about and see the reactions that other people would have to her that's not to say that I didn't feel that it was difficult at times it's just that you you cannot adjust so I mean like if you look at the guys that get put in prison you know the first couple of nights may be quite nerve-wracking but they become well adjusted to the anxiety oppression after and I think it's the same for people experienced in different kinds of adversity whether it's poverty or neglect or other forms of abuse so for me it was it was actually when I started to well actually I never started I was kind of compared to cathartic Express what was going on is away almost of figuring out for myself and then when I started to share the work that I was doing whether it was music or rayon or drama what she was interested and early on then then I started to notice the reactions that that I would get from people where so I indicated to me that this wasn't necessarily normal and that actually what I'd experienced was something that was was pretty difficult I began allium that my story was useful at a certain point and then there was a sort of tension between what I wanted to talk about which wasn't just the hard stuff both of my ideas about how it's over or questions like how are we going to solve poverty everyone hears job depends on it and and so then I started to recognize actually that the some of the institutions and there was set up to support me only wanted to hear a certain amount of what I had to say and so I had to become a bit smart are about how to navigate my way and to a conversation you introduce how violence can overshadow young lives very very early on in the book and what the impact of that might be as people grow up what was your own experience I think that the incident and the book are described as quite a specific incident where my mother lost her temper with me and pursued me through the house with a knife and held me up against the wall and then she was sort of she was kind of grabbed by my dad now was bundled out the house that's a sort of a cure explosive act of violence and I so doesn't a car too often to me but what that does is that creates a sort of vigilance on you even at that young age where there's an expectation that harm well a car as an expectation that you can't trust people an expectation that the eleven in a hostile world where even the people that are supposed to love you and look after you could just flap on you any manner and that by experience was couched and obviously my mother's alcoholism which was coached and a broader community where the threat of violence is ubiquitous I mean your threat sensitivity your risk perception are always on high Aleya when you grow up in a community like this even if you don't experience violence in the home you're always navigating that you're always assessing a vast array of potential threats and for someone like me then then that means that you're living in a constant state of stress and the manner that you become old enough that a new range of stress management solutions become available to you then that's when you began a initiate the cycle where you become the alcoholic and you become the person who's living in chaos and you become the person who's almost kind of aloof or ignorant to the trauma or harm that you're transmitting on other people around you so usually the story of my mother really as as are we and take to lend insufficient context to some of the behaviors that we often associate with the working-class the underclass whatever term you are used but yeah I wonder whether this book actually is really a book about parenting because it's something that you come back to right at the end with your own child and you know in parenting is you know is a perpetual theme of poverty and how to improve the lives of of young people in poverty but how technical do you think your experience is I don't think it's the the de facto experience of people who grew up in a socially deprived area but I do think that I caused more than then then the the discussion area in poverty is so far accounted for if you go and talk to any young person most people and are young offenders institution or people who have a cycle of criminality or people who are homeless or people who are suffering from addictions alcoholism you find a common theme emerging and the females adversity in not early years now that doesn't absolve them of responsibility for claims that they perpetrated on other people whatever form they look like or or to observe them from taking responsibility for their life if they can or what what aspects of the life they can take responsibility for even if something as simple as fooling a sponsor which is something I need to do it take responsibility for my sobriety but if we really want to understand the nature of of that sort of I would say under Bailey of poverty where cultures of of neglect and abuse Farrow eyes adversity and stress then they may have to get better understanding and talking about her and and Wale obviously there were a great many families in my community who where where employment wasn't an issue what adversity wasn't necessarily a serious issue I mean every family those were adversity and at the same time that there's a disproportionate impact that these small pockets of adversity have on all of us whether it's the taxis apparent about the presence or the services for mental health problems or the ents or the CP ends or casualties for people who are attempting to take their own life and and while it may not be the de facto experience for everyone who grows up in poverty the impact is felt across society across institutions as felt in education it's felt in housing it's fail it's felt and addiction services felt and criminal this is felt in health and and we we must get better understanding that that for a lot of people of that nature stress and I think general Israel stress is a connective tissue between many of the can seemingly desperate problems and our society when you look at someone who's homeless you're also looking at someone who's often an addict or an alcoholic you're also looking at someone who's dealt with adversity someone who has either been unpleasant or as a high risk of being in prison someone who is at high risk of being a victim of violence and also potentially a perpetrator over do you remember how insecure you felt as a five six year old for me it was like becoming quite adept at reading other people's emotions so in order to navigate someone who may become explosively threatening or violent you become quite you've become quite chindan to their voice tone their body language their gaze direction I mean that's becomes amout of intuition and so that becomes a scale that saves you quite well but then see you're certain with someone that doesn't present a threat and you're done a conversation like we all know and you're preoccupied with all of our other stuff what's really going on here bah bah bah bah bah becomes very hard to sort of focus on becomes very hard to sort of emotionally attached or to attach in any way and and and so these things that you you these skills that you develop to navigate hostility them become obstacles to attachment with other people trust even just being able to concentrate and be in the present moment and then once you had an education institution and and you start using kind of aggression or antisocial behavior as a way it deflects from that vulnerability then then the nice that's when the social exclusion can begin for a lot of people what's important also as a as well I totally understand and unexpected though maybe not to the extent that it's happened the incident with my mother or my mother generally to be a focal point it's important for me also I say that I come from a very loving not children talented Kiran family as many people who go through adversity and and that why all those incidents that I described in the book relating to my mother were serious maybe not seeded and perceive them as serious as they were at the time it's also important for me it sort of layout that that not every dear my life was was loving and fear of that I mean when you say you came from a loving families you mean other people in your family or do you mean my mother was a different animal altogether when she before the alcoholism sort of grab top and and this is something that was always related to me by people who knew her I mean one of the the my mother had a strong maternal instinct we were always very well-dressed well-kept she was also she was also sort of very helpful when it came in other families you know helping out hidden there where well she could she was a victim of of various forms of violence that women are likely become subject to and and and I just don't think that she she got the support that she may go for whatever reason and it's it's obviously really sad but the story begins with her grown up and social deprivation adversity stress and I said on range of solutions in management been being model to her and and that's a story for a lot of people in this country why do you think things hadn't changed to the extent in 1984 when you were born and afterwards that this would stop in some way I mean I I lived in Glasgow in 1988 and Glasgow was emerging as this sort of proud city city of culture it was getting rid of the estates it was gentrifying all over the place and you know the ideas of these sort of extreme poverty histories in Glasgow was something that was being sort of pushed aside and not talked about anymore as if it didn't happen anymore yet your book lays out very clearly that it was and that it was just as bad as it had been in the 70s in the 60s here the nature of the poverty began to change I think so what we were dealing with in the East was the first time really that there was a decline and industrial activity and the lifetimes of anyone certainly alive at that point and that's presented a specific range of problems for those communities the first one was employment you know the mechanism by which you walk yourself out of poverty the second one was the fact that a lot of these tones a lot of these places they were physically bow around industry so when you when industry because I had the claim they have no Center we were dealing with a government at the time that should a complete lack of understanding for the needs of people living in these communities and just assume that the market is hype and intuitive as it was was going to take care of everyone and a dad produced hero and produced korat cocaine these were the things that the market and truly evolved to in order to provide stress relief for people produced bookmakers that produced bangle holes I'm not saying all of these things are bad and couldn't the drugs before I say on tape of person who as is dealing with stress all the time these these innocent faces can become you know self insistent compulsions that actually add to the difficulty and someone's life so how how much do you feel that the people living in these areas and under these conditions have to solve their own problems for me poverty exists in these two planes kind of like seeming you talk see me talk to like a physicist and you say that certain laws govern the material world you know the law of gravity cause-and-effect rules and laws that we can sort of navigate our world where sea level are productive la without even how many think about but then you talk to maybe like a quantum physicist and they'll see reality in place and a different skill where nothing and the subatomic realm mmm is subject to the same laws and offered it's definitely know what I'm trying to put forward is the idea that poverty is quite similar in terms of the two different skills that we need to think about and discuss we have the systemic stuff we have precarious labor market and economic political system that's leaving too many people feeling that they exist on the outside of that to the extent that they're gonna that that the rest democracy itself just to land a blow on a vaguely defined system that they feel is ranked against them I mean a nice other skill we have the audience a of being able of trying to attain love to have a kiss well-being in our lives to be emotionally available for our family and our communities to navigate our difficulties and stress once I do is take the platitudes about personal responsibility that you hear from the right and actually and and and kind of like ryona as a person of the left and say you know you can call it self-efficacy you can call it personal agency you can gentrify the language what we're really talking about is the extent what someone can begin to start packing up the the tools and their own life and for each end the video that looks different it may be me a few years back when I Braun layout for the Department of Work and Pensions comes through my door and I'm only two weeks sober and that's telling me that I will them thin a half thousand pounds of overpaid being effect doesn't tell me however it doesn't tell me the mistake just tells me I better P know and straight away I just go back in at my old thinking I'm just gonna run straight to the pub I'm just gonna run straight to the or since bought about fast I'll deal with us after personal responsibility if I mean that Mormon is already knowing what lies down that path but I pack up that bottle and they save me open it later and just do it and whatever way as for me it was going away for her rates officer and the date was immediately writing off funnily enough the minute that someone who actually had an understanding of the system got involved so I'm making the argument if you're going to tell people it take personal responsibility you need to understand intimately what your tale let me take responsibility for and then you have to you have to you have to at least not become an obstacle to that as well as maybe potentially helping to facilitate people having more control over the life but just as there is a huge amount in your book for people from the left and the center to try and understand poverty and the underclass as you call it there are it seems to me some gifts in there as well for the right you know I mean you you talk about your own experience of alcohol and drugs and it partly being a products of you getting so much money in benefits yeah because I felt if I'm going to rip one of the benefits I had the right Ness book was that my reasoning through this thing wasn't more by having a produces certain political outcome or a sorority a certain political viewpoint I'm over the left I'm confident that people who know me will see that so I don't feel like I need to sort of signal that constantly which freed me completely liberated me in order to just tell the truth as I understood that the problem then is is when that experience just like someone can benefit fraud as sated is the de facto experience for everyone who has a drug problem or everyone who's on benefits when actually I represent a minority of people so in your case in your life it's not that the system was not providing enough of a safety net for yours it it may have been providing the wrong things and that may have been partly because you weren't being honest about what it was you needed but it was even even you but it wasn't that's you know it wasn't because of cuts it wasn't because of the system being you know not not putting enough money into into poor people know at that time I don't think it was that the I mean the environment there we we exist there knows fundamentally different and an examples like mine I say to this justification for a lot of the cuts that we see so you know I accept that there are never rose to the challenge of accepting the support at the time but the situation we all and know is fundamentally different still does the same math understanding or does the same math understand and about how adversity shapes a person's interpretation of the world and themselves and people will go through experiences like Maine a lot of people would go through things far worse what they are navigating currently as an essentially obstacle course called society where institutions like placin like Social Work just by doing the job well create conditions of adversity so whether it's police going through someone's door a drug dealers door at 8:00 in the morning and arresting a mom or a dad they are creating conditions of trauma now that's a good job done get the dealer getting prosecuted cool job done so what if we start considering those those areas where we may actually be exacerbating a problem and thank as many have gone the door a half name and the cat school now nothing that's going to address everything but in every area of public life whether you're talking about housing you're talking about employment or you're talking about education as a similar dynamic where if we bring in our awareness the implications for someone who's experienced trauma who's dealing with hyper vigilant sense of the ally who's only able to focus on able to concentrate then then how do we create the conditions for them to read to even become well in early on even becoming able to learn and and a lot of the time I see the the social exclusion john lee began inand school where a lot of children are excluded from school saying posted two institutions away from school are kind of triage until people would know how to deal with them and so really i would like to see us moving our more kind of trauma-informed approach across other institutions so that we can identify trauma early I rather than having in more power.we Aurora and a person's developmental trajectory how did he find music my dad's a musician but that's a songwriter he plays guitar and other instruments he also teaches people music my family is very music in this sort of Celtic Scottish tradition and and so we we we were always around that stuff for me hip hop became my primary interest and the tsaatan of the millennium when my friend Sammy would bring around artists on CD in tape like no biggie smalls on eyes or 2pac Gangstar wu-tang and straightaway that stuff had a sort of emotional resonance that that that just spoke to mystery away I mean the culture that was presented by friend Scotland just doesn't speak to me even the poet's I mean I know about more about Scottish poetry know and I've kind of phoned the stuff that I like that talks about my experience by like the stuff you're getting in school it's beautifully written as it was then just the body art was so pronounced he actually getting through it that you just gave up because not only as it coached them very high language this difficult straightaway but also it's talking about you know the sea never became a rusty classic perspective almost just you just can't find that we and hotpot became this thing where it was a low access level I didn't have to own anything in order to participate Anna and also became a legitimate place for me express anger where there's an alloy these other art forms you know expressing anger unless you don't act on something that really threatens people very early on whether it was subconscious or not that's compulsion typically of really started to emerge and me you know all the time I was working on things from a very young age did you try hard at school I did some in the time I struggled in school not necessarly because I couldn't do the work but the sort of school that I went to is a school where lots of young people are presenting with similar problems as as myself so please kids above Apache Leon an environment where you're not just thinking about the curriculum and academic success but you're also navigating all of the social pressures that come with Fusion was like beautiful to describe I got all hailed her on a school bus full of like we guys her for him unsanctioned language is either an invitation to mock you or to fight you sometimes so you've got all that going on as well I mean you talk about bioroid the first time I went in by Alfred was to see was for anger management but the first observation I made of an of bias road was was how come everyone seemed the fact everyone seemed to dress and the virtually seemed to gesture kill it with her hands kind of like Hamden know except you quite comfortable and by bars road we should say for those who don't know is a road in the West End of Glasgow it's a pretty student II middle class she she area now yeah and so like that was the first time really that came any focus how different life could be wife anyone say because I was only travel in one stop on the Underground and sudden I felt like I was in another country and I think now is that the formative observation that really just evolved over the years and maybe became a bit more don't know sophisticated this new information came and play and new experiences but all goes back to that I always back to see and hang on life is not just about you have a more money you have more emotional resources you have more freedom it be who you are and that's why you enjoy life more than someone like me who's on my way back to Govan see if we come back to sort of changing the world and trying to tackle poverty if we accept we can't end it you towards the end of the book you know really lay down the challenging basically say you don't believe in politics or politics his ability to really solve poverty as a problem yeah it's hard to rate that well if not politics then what well there are lots of examples of even just in Glasgow of communities attempting to take more responsibility and and I grew up in a community that was very highly mobilized I mean we occupied community centers physically stopped sheriff's officers and even people's homes to take the stuff online payment of of an unfair tax Lee down and buried buried bomb out cars and roadbeds to stop war always being built through our land so that's what I come from so I know what's possible now when I see politics can't solve it what I'm talking about is a political class this besieged by converging crises sometimes of its own making and I respect that the immediacy of those things means that discussions deep-dive discussions about poverty its nature the political social implications are difficult to have because ultimately what we have just known as a political class that are frightened of public opinion and so it's about placate in whatever anger feels the most elected early costly invested or and then worrying about how we deal with a problem we're on and you can just look at Bray except for an example of that the the current economic system which sort of and many ways has created you know the illusion of choice to an extent I mean no other short Mo's it's the same constellation of Frankie and Bernie's and no Nando's anywhere you go there's not much of a choice really right this idea of people as capital as oh yeah so it's kind of it's making an abstraction of people's real life's and ultimately the big body a lot of community groups currently faces that they have to justify what they do and those terms and those terms that are set by people who don't grow up in those communities who don't understand the minutiae of those communities and if they don't meet the stab elations of aims and objectives of central government or its arms-length organizations then then they just get cut and then that's another that's another instance where people who have actively participated have the worst fears confirmed that was fears that there's no point in trying that was feels that the system's not set up local democracies do not say out with them in mind and and so I think that every stage in our development as a society when things have got that fake or things have got to pinpoint then then then then some of us have evolved to meet the challenge now obviously the collateral damage is not justified there are people who who who wear fur and and and these conditions of stress and adversity is is horrific I mean just to play devil's advocate what why do we need to spend a huge amount of efforts on this as long as people aren't starving and dying in the streets and there's a basic safety net and as long as average living standards are rising for the majority why worry about the underclass I can understand why some people would would would come in that view I mean your plane that was advocated that as a view this widely-held particularly among politically and culturally and economically enfranchised communities that are arguably equate that's then a lot of people just kind of go well that's all there's always going to be an underclass yeah yeah yeah of course I think what we're talking about knows or particular an age of social media is that this is having a politically corrosive unpack this quite fundamental and it's finding expression all across Europe is finding expression and the UK and it's finding expression and the United States and populist sponsors and what you're finding and what you're finding as that there's an eye for an eye should this developing where people are there's a sense that people want retribution no and and and may even be willing to vote against their own interests arguably in order to lash back at the system because there are just too many people unnecessary who quite rightly fume that no matter how hard they work no matter how failure they play by the rules that ultimately that ultimately trade and economic quacks and just keeping that head above that and then we say well why don't they take a risk why don't you own the business you know what the risk is when you ran quacks and don't ya making the tiniest move means you may become deeper submerged sterner and so the whole idea of social mobility is reviewed as a sort of comforting mask it's really what we're dealing me and Breton right now is chronic social and mobile a llamar how hard you work no matter what you do then you will find yourself leavening stress what Ian well you're being farmed by big organizations for your data for your money for your cognitive bandwidth and and really those conditions clear a tinderbox atmosphere and then it just takes the wrong kind of political figure image and see I understand your anger hey and really what I'm what I'm trying to do by analyzing different types of anger in the book is to see I'm a working-class person understand your anger also understand this other guy says he does hasn't got a clue and more more people who come from my so a background hopeful are going to be vomited up soon as an antidote to some of the populism that we're seeing the rules of the game have changed and a shoes that used to be on the French I'm no saint are growing their shoes so we have to add that not that I meet those challenges while still retaining our principles do you think the underclass is susceptible to populist politicians and racism in particular I think anyone can be susceptible of those ideas particularly we're not presented as as solutions to other problems that people are experiencing so obviously a migration so a real live I sure know and many communities even in communities that are actually affected by emigration at all and and I think where people become susceptible to some of the maths around that like it's emigration that's causing the crisis in the NHS for example then it's usually because not usually because as often because the leveling conditions of stress and actually stress is a physiological way state that impairs so many of our basic functions one of them being empathy one of them being the capacity to correctly interpret what's going on high risk threat sensitivity so i knows conditions then then then people will find themselves be more aggravated agitated and sometimes resentful and if someone begins to detect that and try a shape that anger and gather a political signature then then the this sort of can spoon feed people maths about about about the causes have been obviously breaks that we understand that a lot of it was around that migration concern what breaks it doesn't do is address the fundamental problems of our economy in fact what it does do is buy time for the people who've gotten to dismiss the political class and some of the business class to actually just get off to figure out how they can exploit after and because they don't race to served regardless it doesn't address neoliberal economics which have left a lot of people feeling disenfranchised in that solution doesn't address wealth polarization all it says as we will do something about the borders and everything's just gonna work out and and well I understand well that feeling comes from and I do recognize the emigration particularly in areas of poverty and violence can be a very challenging thing for not not not just people who live there whether they are but for the immigrants themselves then at the same time I think that it's it's an illusion a solution it's just where I'm coming from I want to be a bit smarter about how I engage that sort of main set because I don't know if it's even makes political sense at this point this mess all concern as a legitimate although I completely understand and obviously as a weight guy is much as I'm aware of racism as much as I feel strongly that it must be condemned I could never feel its effects as accurately as people of color on a completely recognize that and so so I recognize that maybe in my view or now as you may be shaped by not being subject to that particular air force I mean it so you say as a white guy to what extent has the whole gender eruption and the eruption of gender politics reached via states where you grew up well it's a funny and no section actually what you're talking about is is sort of the the intersection between these new ideas that are females that in the mainstream around and our sexuality identity the extent to which different types of people based on their identity and well well and our face with society and its institutions actually on Mac community and one of the reasons I initially found so-called identity politics so challenging it was not because I don't believe in equality for all was because I was struggling to reconcile the idea of of women as you know I guess maybe an oppressed class or or a sick a second class to men wife wife my own experience which was very personal to me which was that you know whether it was my mom mothers my granny or my a nice woman were in charge and and my life and so those are natural clumsy attempts they are tequila you know the classic sort of not all men crap that a lot of us do initially as we navigate that stuff intuitively are you terrified to talk about it no I'm not nervous no no no but I recognize and some difficult but very necessary lessons about the care you need to take when you do talk about it I mean I look at things from usually from an artist point of view as much as don't always have that persona so I'm always about what's this stuff that we're not allowed to discuss what's this stuff there is out of bones I tend to move towards out and out of some inspired by the well I still think that's legitimate growing for an artist to cover you have to be clever about how you do it because actually the forces on the rate that are are creating such a challenge to the left on these matters particularly or in lane they've adopted the kind of veil of provocateurs of non conformists of rebels something that we traditionally would see us there was as only left so I learn some lessons about the fact that that just because something feels challenging to me that doesn't necessarily that shouldn't redirect my thanking I'm politics I shouldn't just jump on YouTube and fall down the fossil rabbit hole that makes me feel good and secondly as someone whose camera made 11 of me middle class people feel uncomfortable it would be about hippocratic of me it's honor own to women erratic affair minutes when when discussing issues of everything from gender pay gap to domestic violence and and and tell them that they can't make me feel uncomfortable or challenge my views and and my friend sure really is an attempt to articulate how I navigated that personally as a man and it's not to make all about men but as our mind with a platform and a community of young men and I mean and a landscape with lots of new ideas try articulate how you can find your way back to your politics and reconcile the person and wife the political I mean having said that you don't really believe the political system has the answers to these problems that you detail what composites do what do you think the political system can achieve them the poetic obsessed them as opposed to individuals I mean you've said a lot about what you think in the visuals can you in community sport acknowledge that the UK model of democracy is dysfunctional and if you go and talk to a Welsh probation officers or you go and talk to people in Scotland are you going to talk to people in Ireland you'll find the same themes emerge in my chest London doesn't take uncommon calls and it's not just politics and wonder than it doesn't take and coming calls so what we have what we need we need whether it's a new settlement on how power is distributed around the UK or whether it's the sort of hands up moment of humility from the political class in London to say actually we there's a lot of us that we were messing there's a lot of us that we're getting wrong it's it's coded into it for a politician to do that that's why pressure needs to be applied that's why we need movements that's why we need activists isn't as editing this they can be and I include myself unless all the advances that we have in terms of human rights in terms of equality in terms of of public services housing rates every single thing all came usually from a left-wing group of people who witness shut up no matter how much right-wing press demonize them and no matter how annoying people in their own community I found that and so and a social media age we just need to get more tooled up and sophisticated accessories one thing the rate though really well we need a more sophisticated about how the average person navigates new ideas into their own social media the implications of conduct on our politics or not and I believe we need to get you social media organized meat not in real life get together get a sense of one another talk about the difficult issues and forums physical forums where we can see in sense each other and and then I think from that we can started began understanding the needs of communities what they want what the problems are and then began an articulate a clearer version from the left about how we would go about addressing the problems and our society have you found Corbin and disappointment I think Corbin is very effective in campaign mode and I know that he's I know that he's in campaign mode all the time there's a lot of grassroots stuff that goes on with the Labor Party just know and I think not trying to reactivate a lot of those kind of closed sales and have very deep roots in a lot of the communities that underage on the new labor years my frustration is that Corbin presents himself as a radical turn of and this is why I wouldn't necessarily engage in the usual way that you should work mainstream media if you want to get elected so one hand it's radical and then on the other hand he's Pro trident and so how can you occupy both of those possessions if you're going to say tried it renewal as politically like feasible or durable or whatever then just play the game you know this is a government and modest attempt just a poll released today attempt or say an approval rating of the government's handling of breaks this is the moment a government's on the ropes this is a moment we need a strong or possession this is the moment is so I sure your teeth are we better not used too much kind of violent language but you know what I mean and and for me you're either radical or you're Pro Trident my natural political possession would be to vote labor at that vote labor and a lot of people in Scotland dead and a lot of us got here for from the independence movement understandably but also I can sense a lot of people with that dwarf or Corbin coolant to him again because the system or there's a constant lack of clarity from my perspective and a lot of people's perspective around the sort of country that we won't actually build once at the end of your book you come back to the very personal and you recognize that your life has changed in the lives of your people in your family have changed for the better going to university all that kind of thing do you think ultimately that that that's what this becomes about that that the working class if you like can only ever solve their problems by becoming middle-class you know and that there is no such thing as a stable satisfactory state for people who don't earn a lot of money you accused me of being medic last of all the things people have said about me over the years I think that so when I take most offense to and I understand what you see in there I think what I was trying to infuse the final thought of the book work with was that regardless of your circumstances usually they are temporary whether that's conditions of mental or physical difficulty or economic hardship and and Wale obviously we need to continue a pressure of Paulette sessions and and also contribute in our communities then then I do think it's important now as difficulties things are here that we wish we locate some sense of gratitude for the fact that we grew up in a country where well we have enough level in it we can protest things where we have enough what we have an education system at least exists that's free that we can we could technically educate ourselves in order to overthrow the very economic system that they were exhausting and I think that that saw a labral in freedoms not to be sneered at and and and so really in the last part of the book what I was seeing was you can you can have a parallel Germany through this one as you know exactly you Donna but what needs to change you actively participate that participate in that but also take a little moment every known in to train find the ideas and your life that you're grateful for to Train find areas and in your life that you you meet Tonica clay on your own behavior and I think it's the kind of balance of both perspectives I wasn't accusing you of being middle class although I wonder why it is you you wouldn't want to be I mean you know not my dad was an orphan and he starred as a kid and he's the one he made good he became a doctor and he made us a middle class I'm quite proud of that why would you not want to be middle class well I was kind of senior opportunity for a joke there just at the end and I don't I think Matt what class people are tribute to me now is out of my hands I think a lot of people I'm becoming public property in a sense since was my work I'll always feel working-class and my core and I'll always do my best to make sure that my connections with those communities in that experience remains very strong but I accept completely that my my claims to either being a victim or hardship are going to become fan out it looks like at least as the Year continues and it's my life continues for me really what my output the opportunity that's there for me now as Stickley a life for my children that the aim is not as stressful as it was for me growing up a place where they can feel open to express and emotions suffering them being emotionally regularly it is not the best contribution I commit to their lives but the best contribution that can make to my community Tara McGarvey thank you very much indeed you




Comments
  1. but he is a product of circumstance, a product of conditioning. not personal responsibility. until people realise the present they cannot escape their conditioning. so he is lucky that he has developed the mental capacity to do so but to expect everyone to be able to do this with clarity is unrealistic.
    the system is the problem.

  2. Love Darren. Dareen mcgarvey for president! He'll sort it out and he's got my vote. Yes I know it's prime minister, but president sounded better

  3. I think we need to start considering the idea of benefit fraud etc in my experience many people are unwilling to work in what are usually poverty waged jobs that break body, mind and spirit – holding that in mind for many then its a better choice to humiliate themselves at the DWP a few times a year and get on with claiming benefits – many are now tapping into the growth area of encouraging people to identify with one of the many 'mental disorders' and seek 'treatment' it seems as long as the DWP see people getting 'help' they back off so IAPT etc is being used by the very broken people it was designed to get off benefits and into some shitty job – quite mad really

  4. I am loving this guy. I could feel myself leaving a life time on the Left towards the conservatives. Darren is making me think again. I might even be able to listen to Owen Jones without vomiting.

  5. You weren’t going one stop on the underground if you landed on byres road..unless you got on at kelvin hall at the bottom of Byers road/dumbaron road..and got off at byres road..or kelvin bridge and got on at byres road..and if you only done one stop from govan to Partick you’ve got of at the wrong stop..either wY your more confused than me!!and if you’ve travelled from pollok to take one stop.. you’ve been really lazy in the last leg of your journey??and if your lying about your tube adventures how can I trust you to persuade me to vote yes??ohh it will only be one year of austerity..and before I know it I’ve done 12 stops on the tube.. and I’ve still not seen economic stable station??

  6. I could listen to Darren for a lot longer than 42 mins. Never heard of him until now, but he's a great ambassador for the lower classes and the Scottish accent. 🙂 He speaks just as fast as us Irish. Must be that Celtic blood. I think I'll watch his TED talk next (it's in my feed to my right).

  7. Channel 4 2018 cover ups..

    -Telford/Leeds muslim pedophille gangs
    -55 murders in London in 3 months
    -Not covering Italy & Hungary elections
    -Not covering corrupt EU meetings
    -Government detaining Martin sellner and Brittany Pettibone illegally
    -Not covering freedom of speech events
    – Illegal detainment as illegal sentencing of an innocent man

    Channel 4 2018 Lies:(False flags)

    -Blamed Russia for meddling in US election
    -Blamed Russia for chemical attack in UK
    -Blamed Assad for chemical attack in Syria
    -Blamed Russia for staged babchenko murder

    Channel 4 BIAS

    – Bias against white working class people of UK
    – Pro Islam agenda disguised as multi culturalism
    – Anti Russia propoganda
    – Bias against Myanmar people
    – Anti Tommy Robinson propoganda

  8. Change the world? The Apex issue is government debt… Fail to solve it and no other issue will matter at all

  9. Brilliant interview. We desperately need more voices like this – especially taking personal responsibility and solutions rather than purely victimhood.

  10. Brilliant to hear from Darren. Talks a lot of sense. Just finished his book and would highly recommend it.

  11. Channel 4 why won't you report on Tommy Robinson?
    OHHH Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy Tommy Robinson

  12. That Moslems just sitting there thinking (by muhommad… these libtards are doomed.)
    You got em cucked well 4chan, i tell ye…

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