Customer Experience and Digital Marketing at the American Medical Association (CxOTalk #345)

The connection between digital transformation
and customer experience. I’m so thrilled today to welcome Todd Unger,
the chief experience officer at the American Medical Association. Todd, please tell us about the American Medical
Association and your role. The American Medical Association, the AMA,
which I will call it from now on, is a mission-based organization to promote medicine and public
health. We do that by being a very powerful ally to
physicians. We speak with them with a unified voice. We remove the obstacles that get between them
and their patients. We’re taking a leading role in addressing
chronic care epidemics that are affecting this country, and we’re driving the future
of medicine. Your members then are primarily physicians. Is that correct? Medical students, residents, and physicians,
yes. As Chief Experience Officer, tell us about
your role. My role, when I first started here a couple
of years ago, was primarily focused on accelerating our membership growth and retention and increasing
engagement with our audience. Subsequently, brand strategy and marketing
has folded into that. I think of experience as being a pretty broad
platform, but it does encompass pretty much how we are engaging with physicians, residents,
and students on the topics that mean the most to them. Why experience? Why is that so important? I think it’s a broader conceptualization of
marketing. In fact, there’s a big HBR article that I
just saw this week that said CX is the new marketing. Really, experience is the thing I think that
encompasses product, technology, and marketing because they really have, in this environment,
come all together. You’ve really got to be looking at all three
of those things as the total experience that your consumers, or your members in our case,
have with you. You were brought onboard in order to increase
membership and, apparently, you must have done that pretty darn well. Tell us what’s happened in the last 20 months. Yeah, I came from the not very closely related
world of horseracing in my past life, but I’ve been in digital media and marketing before
that for a long time. The explicit desire here was to have somebody
come in and really help the organization get up to speed on the digital front because it
is so closely connected these days with engaging with our audience and accelerating membership. Todd, the notion of digital transformation
and membership, explain to us how these pieces fit together. I don’t start anything that I do with, I’ll
call them, digital blinders on. The first thing is to figure out what the
job that you’re trying to get done is. Inevitably, of course, these days, if you’re
trying to meet people where they are, that does involve digital platforms. We are, in essence, like any other subscription
business in that we have something that we’re trying to get people to belong to. If you’re going to communicate with people
and build a subscription business, you do need to have that platform in place. I think, basically, today, most organizations
or businesses, they have to act in three ways. They’ve got to have the consumer product focus
of a company like Proctor & Gamble. They need to have the publishing experience
and content management experience of a New York Times or Washington Post, and they need
to have the data and analytics platform and skillset of like an Amazon. That’s a tough organization to build these
days. But if you’re going to succeed in creating
a member experience and really interacting with people, you’ve got to be able to do all
three things. Is it accurate to say that digital transformation
or customer experience, and maybe we should also distinguish between those two as we talk
here, must involve the product, media, and data? All of the above, yes. I think digital transformation is a bizarre
and scary term. I don’t walk in the door saying, “We need
to have a digital transformation,” because that is really kind of meaningless to people. A lot of times I would say it’s better to
think about that in retrospect after you’ve gotten something done, but the digital platform
is essential in helping you achieve your business objectives, and that’s really what it boils
down to. We have a question from Twitter. Sal Rasa asks, “How do you see long-term care
in the realm of transformation and integrating change from the customer’s experience?” which
I guess is the patient experience in this case. Even though my purview here is mostly communicating
between us and physicians, ultimately, I’m there to help them in what they care the most
about, which is patient care. There is no aspect of healthcare right now
that is not being transformed digitally. One of the most exciting places, and I think
it probably has more relevance on the long-term care side, is remote patient monitoring because
you’ll look around at most systems and they’re equipping themselves to have people not come
to the hospital, not come into the office, but to provide people with the technology
to be able to do what they need to do from home and to be able to communicate with them
from a remote place and have their progress monitored. If we come back to the AMA, you doubled the
growth rate of the membership in the first 20 months that you were there. How did you do that? It was an exciting couple of years. It was one of those things where it’s not
just one thing; it’s a lot of things. For anyone that’s in marketing, product development,
or anything in the digital world understands is there are a lot of levers, but there is
a framework that I’ve seen repeat, I’d say, over the course of my career at any of the
businesses that I’ve worked on. Even though the context might be different
that the work is essentially still the same. It really all starts with really understanding
who your target audience is. That’s first and foremost I think a thing
that, especially in the digital world and era of digital transformation and the digital
heroes, it’s always been a very product-first era, which I harken back to my days at Proctor
& Gamble or Leo Burnett in advertising. I know, first, always start in understanding
your target audience and everything kind of flows from that, including what your value
proposition is. The understanding that, even among physicians,
they’re not a uniform group. They care about different things. They’re interested in different topics. That kind of segmentation and really understand
who we’re trying to talk to and what value we can bring to the table is the first thing. That precedes technology, digital investment,
all of that kind of stuff. Once that’s in place and you find a way to
actually express that value proposition in language well suited to the digital world
that we’re in right now, then you start to build out the infrastructure. We had a lot to do to kind of bring our, I’d
say, kind of subscription digital infrastructure up to speed. We hadn’t really done a lot of digital marketing
in the past before I arrived. There was, of course, email marketing, but
that kind of experience flow when you begin to do digital advertising and understanding
how it’s set up and how the metrics come out of it is something we had to build. Once that was in place, we could really start
to focus at a higher level in the funnel and put the emphasis on building an audience. For us, we’re not trying to be the New York
Times or Washington Post in terms of attracting tens of millions of people. We have a very specific audience out there
and so, for us, it’s, how do we engage with more of them more frequently? What did you do differently than the AMA had
done previously? Well, there were some strategic, I’ll say,
starting with the target audience. When we looked at physicians, I would say
the initial paradigm was more around career stage or life stage. Sometimes that works. If you’re a student or a resident, you’re
in a very specific place in your medical training, specific institution, and that makes sense. But out in the world where you’re talking
to physicians is where that segmentation started to break down. For us, we can look at our audiences and know
the types of content that we’re interacting around and then begin to kind of personalize
an experience around that. For instance, there is a large segment of
our audience that’s interested in advocacy. We need to treat them like that’s a topic
they really can’t get enough of and to figure out what is the offering to folks in that
target audience and how should we talk to and correspond with them. That requires a very different way of approaching
our communications, which I would say, if you looked at our website a couple of years
ago, it would have been more in line with a traditional association site. Even though we had news and it was updating,
it was not put together in what I would call a unified approach that can be powered through
content and content marketing and then also be well tuned toward engagement and conversion
on the other end. That rebuilding process started about a year
ago. We finished and launched the new site back
in November, along with a mobile application with the same underlying content. We have approached 80% growth in terms of
a unique audience at the site level. That is translating into more members through
digital channels. Your first task was then to really go out,
I’m assuming, and speak with your members to find out what they care about, what matters
to them. It was. Believe me; they’re not shy about telling
me that. I actually had people reach out to me before
I even started. I actually learned a lot through one of those
episodes where somebody did reach out and say, “Hey, I’m not a member of the AMA and
I don’t feel like you represent us.” I actually went and spoke with him. What I learned was the thing that then kept
repeating over and over in every interaction that I would have subsequently, which is,
there are a lot of folks out there that don’t have any idea of the great work that this
organization is doing on behalf of patients and physicians. That clearly became job number one for me
is to make sure that they do understand that because there is incredible work going on
here on so many different fronts that have so much impact on people in this country. When I talk with marketers from, say, technology
companies, they oftentimes say the same thing, except for the very largest brand names. They say, “You know we’re doing great things,
but people don’t know about us.” How do you get the word out? How do you get people to know about you? It sounds like you’ve done a really good job
at the AMA. Yeah. People are very busy and they’re all binge-watching
on Netflix, and so how do you get attention? I have learned in prior roles that if you
have something, especially something that’s even remotely complicated or there is a lot
under it, it takes time to build that. You’re not always going to get to spend 20
minutes with somebody at a time to do that. In fact, that’s not very scalable, and you
have to kind of look at how do I, over the course of time, accumulate that 20 minutes
or whatever it’s going to take to be able to explain what my value proposition is and
support it in a way that will kind of turn people around if they’ve been negative before
or move them from someone that’s open to it into kind of a positive zone? That requires operating across any number
of different platforms but recognizing that just because you do the work or just because
you write an article or put together a piece of content doesn’t mean that people are going
to see it, whether it’s posting on our site, then amplifying that through social channels,
through media, through our members, through our ambassadors. There are so many different ways that we’ve
expanded how our audience can actually interact with those messages. What about the building awareness aspect because,
as you said, just because you put a piece of content out there doesn’t mean that people
will see it or care about it and, therefore, interact with it in some way. Yeah, it really does come down to marketing. We have found for ourselves that content is
an incredibly effective way of expanding the reach and impact of our mission objectives. If we’re doing work in physician burnout,
work that we believe has led to the first decrease in physician burnout that we’ve seen
in several years, it’s imperative that we reach more people with a message that, “It’s
not your fault. You don’t need to go do yoga.” Even though taking care of yourself is fundamentally
important, it’s system level problems that are causing issues with physician burnout
and we’ve got a set of tools and resources to help physicians figure out how to fix those
system-level problems. For us, my job is to get all of this content,
information that our subject matter experts here produce, into the hands of the people
that need them in whatever practice environment they’re working in. That’s good old fashioned marketing of which
digital marketing is just a subset. Again, it comes down to, before you start
creating a lot of content, you’ve got to really understand who you’re talking to, what they
care about, and what’s the value proposition that you’re bringing to the table. Yeah, it’s really important because you may
have the assumption, for instance, that all physicians care about a topic like physician
burnout or practice innovation or that they all care about advocacy and certain issues
within that, but it’s not necessarily true. When we create content, we keep these target
segments in mind. When we put marketing power behind them, we’re
going to talk to people, whether it’s on a social platform or through email, that care
about those topics. The notion of change and transformation must
have been pretty significant because the AMA has been around for a long time. It’s a well-established organization. Then you come in and you’re saying, “Well,
we’re going to bring this marketing bend to it.” What about the culture shift necessary inside
the AMA to accept these changes? It’s 170 years old and just getting started. I love the excitement at this organization
about embracing change and having an impact. That’s what it’s all about here. Frankly, I’m thrilled with how much we’ve
been able to achieve in a two-year period. That comes from the top here and from our
board who made it an imperative that we embrace the modern set of marketing tools and engagement
tools to further the initiatives of this organization. A lot of what I’ve done over the past couple
of years is introducing new language, the language of digital marketing. That terminology is not necessarily familiar
to folks and the metrics that are associated with that: How many people are coming to the
site? How often? What are they doing? What does a marketing funnel look like? How do we leverage social platforms, which
may be a couple of years ago people didn’t believe that we would be able to interact
effectively with physicians, students, residents through those platforms? It turns out that’s not true. It’s been an incredible place for us to tell
our story and interact with our members and prospects. That, I would say, has all been supported
by data-driven experimentation. The thing that’s most thrilling to me is,
you work in an organization with a lot of physicians. They’re driven by data and evidence, and so
I’m well suited toward an evidence-based situation like this where we can do an experiment and
I can show that 30% more people will do this if we try it this way. I’ve been so humbled by digital marketing
over the past 15 years that I love ideas. I love testing ideas, putting things side-by-side,
and showing people you really can make a difference when you try things. This organization, I’d say, culturally, has
been changed by that because they can see the evidence base that happens when you test. Then you just put those best practices into
place and you just keep improving, so it’s been pretty exciting. Although there is this impression, I think,
that people have of physicians as being resistant to change, and so how did you get physicians
to interact with you and embrace and accept these new ways of doing things? The way to do that is to meet them where they
are and to really understand them as an audience and what they’re really interested in. Instead of kind of operating from our own
set of initiatives and what we think, it’s really understanding what they think and want
to know more from us. I also had the benefit of part of the American
Medical Association is the Journal of the American Medical Association. They are a medical publishing powerhouse,
a first-rate publishing organization that’s inherently about speeding research into practice. When I look for role models or have role models
for this organization, there is a very clear set of folks and an operation to show the
way. We have a question from Twitter. Again, it relates to physicians, who are your
audience and your constituency. What is the value that physicians gain from
the AMA, how does that manifest, and what are the implications of that for the digital
expression? That’s interesting because I was having a
conversation with somebody about, what do you get for your membership? I think that’s a very typical way that people
approach it. A fundamental thing is, you can offer tangible
benefits, which we do. For us, you do get a subscription to the Journal
of the American Medical Association. You do get access to some very good pricing
on insurance, life and disability, things that really matter. You do get to participate in changing the
direction of healthcare if you want to participate in our policymaking activities. Then there is a wide array of other types
of savings and tangible benefits that you get. Fundamentally, people are going to join an
organization like the AMA because they believe that we are a powerful ally to physicians
in the thing that they care the most about, which is patient care. Really getting to the core of what that message
is and then how that gets communicated and supported, depending on what you’re interested
in specifically as a physician, that’s the foundation of why people join an organization
like this. What about the customer experience aspect? We’ve been talking about digital transformation,
but your title is Chief Experience Officer, and so where is the connection there? Well, there are a lot of different realms
that that applies to. I think one of the most interesting things,
as we think about experience with this organization, there is, let’s say, a core group of folks
who are deeply involved, for instance, in our policymaking activities and are the people
that’ll travel here to Chicago in June or to another location in the fall for our annual
and interim meetings. They’re deeply involved and they have a set
of experiences that extend throughout the rest of the year. Now, for a lot of other people, their experience
doesn’t have that personal touch. I would say, for many of them, they would
get their initial invoice in the fall and then please renew in the following year. That in-between time, maybe they came in contact
with something we’ve written. Maybe they saw a press release that we put
out. Maybe they would have seen an article that
would have run in a newspaper that talked about what we’re up to. We really needed to take back that control
of the experience, determine what that was, and then market it to them. For me, we’re in the process of using digital
platforms to create that experience for physicians so that we’re engaging with them on the topics
that they care the most about, where we can deliver the most value to them, and all of
the mission work that we’re doing to get it in the right hands of people centrally and
not leave that to a passive experience. Then there’s the infrastructure that underlies
that. I would say our digital experience, which
is where we’re meeting people, whether it’s on our site, through social platforms, that’s
something we’ve supercharged and that facilitates that experience. We have another follow-up question from Twitter. If the value is helping improve patient care,
then how do you do that and again link it to this notion of digital transformation and
the customer experience that your providing to your members? If I go back to kind of where we started,
there are different ways that we are a powerful ally in patient care. One of that is through our advocacy initiatives. It’s speaking for physicians with a unified
voice to all the players that matter in healthcare. That could be the government. That could be pharmaceutical companies, technology
companies, you name it. There are a lot of players in healthcare and
doctors’ voices need to be represented so that we don’t end up in situations where physicians
are working for the technology and not vice versa in service of patient care. That’s one area. The second area is, there are very clear things
that get in the way of physicians delivering care to their patients. Right now, a study that we did basically determined
that, for every hour of patient care, face-to-face, physicians are spending two hours behind a
computer screen entering in notes and other stuff into the electronic health records,
including a couple of hours at night. That’s not what we want to be doing right
now. Physicians are spending time getting authorization
from the insurance company for the treatment that they want their patients to have. Then maybe they go to get a prescription and
they can’t afford it because the price of prescription drugs is so high. We’re working on those problems to make sure
they go away so that we can facilitate the patient care that needs to be put in place. The third thing is, you’re well aware of the
many public health crises we have. We focus on particularly three of those right
now. One is on dealing with hypertension. A second is with prediabetes where there is
just incredible problems, as you know, right now with the number of population, about 80
million, that are prediabetic and don’t even know about that. Then the third is the opioid epidemic, which
is obviously consuming vast amounts of our healthcare resources in treating. We’re facilitating ways to make that situation
better and hopefully put an end to the opioid epidemic. I’d say the final way that we do that is through
something I don’t think a lot of people know about, which is driving the future of medicine. We are facilitating the changes that are happening
in medicine right now. I talked about remote patient monitoring before,
but telemedicine is something that’s increasing in usage and all of the infrastructure that
underlies that needs to get put into place to make sure that doctors have what they need
to be able to do that and, from a technology payment standpoint, all of that kind of stuff. The other thing, and this is affecting, of
course, every aspect of business out there is data. One of the key things about data right now
in healthcare is, it’s not necessarily hooked up in a way that can connect the input when
a patient comes in the door and the outcomes. There are different systems that underly that
data input and the portability of that. We are putting in place an infrastructure
and what we would call an innovation ecosystem to facilitate the flow of that data so that
it can actually deliver better patient care in the end. As you develop better member experience and
you’re bringing members in, how does that help in terms of your advocacy function and
in terms of building a cohesive group or a cohesive block of physicians that adds weight
and influence to your advocacy function? Yeah, I think part of how we view ourselves
on my team and I think it’s a little bit of a different paradigm before is, we’re essentially
lead generators for the folks that are on our advocacy and our mission parts of the
organization. I see my role as getting someone to kind of
raise their hand and say, “I’m really interested in advocacy initiatives and of this kind of
variety.” That may be a person that just wants to read
the newsletter, and so I can give them our advocacy update newsletter. It may be a person that wants to write their
congressperson and say, “This is what I care about.” It may be a person that wants to get trained
and go to Capitol Hill and visit lawmakers. We have created kind of a pipeline, for lack
of a better word, a spectrum of ways that you can engage on the advocacy front. We have a quarter of a million members right
now, but we represent all physicians, whether they’re members or not. I think people understand that. Can you give us the kind of playbook for drawing
people in? You mentioned that part of your job is lead
gen for the advocacy function inside the AMA. For people listening, how do you do that and
do that really well in today’s environment? What are the challenges that you faced doing
that? It kind of goes back to the old marketing,
which is, start with your target audience. I think once we had a better understanding
of what our audience segments were and that you could communicate with different segments
in a more personalized fashion, that we didn’t need to treat our audience of physicians,
students, residents as a one-size-fits-all group. That you could have conversations that people
care intensely about and build the relationship that way as opposed to being more generic. For me, it’s good old fashioned listening
and consumer focus. It’s reorienting around audience instead of
initiative and product and really following that audience where they are and what they
want to talk about. We did the ground level work here of, once
we determined what those audience segments were, then going in and taking a look at what
are the key search terms in the area, how do we stack up on that, what kind of content
are we building in those arenas, and why has it or not worked? For us, it became an issue of testing that
hypothesis. I’d say one of the breakthroughs we had was
translating all of the work that we do, for instance in an area like physician burnout,
into more topical content that can reach people and bring folks in. Let’s say that an article we might have written
about physician burnout a few years ago would bring in a few thousand people at a time. We found a way, basically, by optimizing what
we were writing through the headline, through the kind of content and, of course, rebuilding
the site infrastructure to be SEO friendly that we could multiply that audience to the
tune of 300x. [Laughter] It’s a lot more people that get
exposure to that and that’s through a combination of organic traffic and then observing when
something is getting traction that you can then begin to invest in supporting that through
your content marketing efforts. Again, it’s back to ground level, consumer
marketing, digital marketing, foundational elements that meet consumer needs and then
employing best practices to reach people. How much of that draws on SEO techniques versus
changing the type of content that you developed in response to learning about your members? It’s heavily in both arenas. We definitely had an obstacle at an infrastructure
level with the site because it wasn’t built to be optimized for SEO. We hadn’t done the proper things that I think
a lot of publishing organizations have done in terms of building in that infrastructure,
but that’s not enough to do it. We could have a perfect infrastructure situation
and just not reach people. That is just plain and simple going and matching
up the categories that we build content with what people are looking for. It’s pretty straightforward to go out and
look. How many people are looking at articles around
physician burnout? How many people are looking for articles around
prediabetes? What are the specific topics in those areas
that they’re looking for? Half your traffic should at least come from
organic search and so, for us, it became, how do we match the kind of demonstrated consumer
interest out there with content that was worthy of being clicked on? A lot of our articles that you would read
right now, I’d say, would be unrecognizable, maybe, to what we had written a few years
ago and, certainly, in the league of any leading digital publisher. Can you give us just an example of, say, a
piece of content that you’ve done now that does well versus the kind of content you did
in the past? Yeah, the burnout article that I mentioned
before. We did an article called Physician Burnout:
It’s Not You; It’s Your Specialty. It had a listicle at the center of it where
you could take a look at what the top burnout rates were by specialty. It had a great headline, really well written,
every keyword hit possible, and that article immediately took off. Now, we did the same article two years ago
in a very different way, of course. What we saw was, even though that had been,
up to the point, one of the leading articles we ever had done, that the traffic to the
new way of doing things was 100 times more. That shows you a direct comparison of when
you apply first-rate digital publishing techniques around the topics that people really care
about and you can see the needle move. As somebody who develops lots of content,
of course, this topic is of real interest to me. Can you tell us what was the old article like
compared to the description you just described of the new one? Most of the stuff that we had written before,
I’ll call it, more promoting objectives of our different kind of divisions and mission
organizations without thinking through, how can I make this article really interesting,
stand out, and be something that someone would click on? As you know from being a content creator,
there’s the art and science of that. There’s the science that underlies it around
keywords and tagging. There’s the art of good writing, which brings
an idea to life in a way that, in this world where it is so hard to pry someone away from
Netflix, what is going to make you click on that? Then once you have that in place, how am I
going to reach people with that? In the past, that article would have just
been posted. It might have gone out in our newsletter. Right now, what we see is, when we have something
like that that begins to get traction is that we can then, basically, employ content marketing
to actually invest in reaching more people with that content primarily through social
platforms. We have another question from Twitter. What are the kind of operational changes that
you made at the AMA to deliver better member experience? I think we were talking about one specific
type but, in general, what kind of operational changes have you made? I think one of the most interesting and key
changes that we made here was establishing a digital publishing team. I know that that might seem like a strange
kind of concept but, for an association, it’s not first nature to have that. The resources were there, so there was a content
team that was part of marketing. There was a UX small group of folks in another
place. The analytics person was in IT. Then there was a direct marketing function
that was separate from that. I came from a publishing background. If can ask the question, “How many people
are coming to our site?” and we’re not quite sure what that answer is, you can see we’re
not going to get traction until we act like a digital publishing team with a set of metrics
and that kind of operation that powers a digital publishing team. One of the things I thought was so amazing
was, once that was recognized and a proposal got put in place, different folks around this
organization said, “That makes sense. Let’s put that together.” We created that initial publishing team and
then we have invested in building that out, so it now looks, acts, runs like any first-rate
digital publishing group that you’d name. How did you get the buy-in to make that investment? Thankfully, I have a great deal of support
here and people who understand that we need to make changes to communicate with people
in the ways that the times demand. I think once I could kind of build a case
here for, “Hey, this is how it’s operating right now. There isn’t the connection that we need between
somebody that comes in on a certain topic and membership or engagement with our mission-related
content. We’re leaving a lot on the table from an engagement
standpoint.” I could prove that through analytics and show,
through continued testing, just how much better it could be. Again, back to working in healthcare and with
the set of folks here at the AMA who are very motivated by progress and evidence. That is what led the way. We have another question from Twitter. Gus Bekdash asks, “When you’re driving these
kinds of changes, do you start from the top down with the big picture or do you start
with small changes and then build up over time? How did you do it?” I hope it’s not unfair to say both. I’d say one of the most influential things
was that focus on small wins and about removing obstacles here that were really frustrating
people in terms of the member experience. I’ll give you a great example. Before I came, there had been kind of an analysis
of what it took to get a marketing email out. It was taking a really, really long time,
and I’m used to, in my past, to be able to have something. If it needs to go out, it can go out in two
hours. I took a look at why that was happening and
you could just see, organizationally, that those kinds of traditional digital publishing
and digital marketing roles hadn’t been well established and there were just too many people
involved and not necessarily people with the right expertise at writing emails and sending
them out, targeting, and doing all that stuff. Part of that was organizational. I had the ability and the authority to come
in and say, “You know what? We’re not going to do it that way anymore,”
and that cut the time to get something out by about two-thirds. Now we’re down to a few hours if we need it. Then looking at the templates. How was the writing done? I love rolling up my sleeves, working with
someone, showing them how we can do better, and putting that in a test. All of a sudden, we start to accumulate all
of this evidence around small wins, about open rates and clickthrough rates, and member
conversion through that one little thing. That creates a great deal of momentum and
sets people off on an innovation path. On the other end, in the big picture part
of this, I look for stories out there that are maybe even unrelated to tell people the
story of how things can get done. I used a very funny example, which I won’t
go in drastic detail, from my own personal experience to show how an individual out there
has built a YouTube channel, a social following, video, instructional materials, downloads,
all of this kind of stuff. This is an individual person. I use that as a case study to show here is
how digital marketing works today. Here’s what it means to say SEO. Here’s what content marketing looks like. Here’s what a premium piece of content is
and why that’s gaited and why you need to collect an email address and then what you
do with that after. I think those real-world examples, whether
or not they’re from healthcare or not, have been really effective in bringing that story
to life. Any final thoughts or words of advice to other
people listening saying, “Yeah, we need to also make that kind of change. How do we start, and what do we do?” My experience here, I think there’s a common
approach that I’ve seen time and time again that always starts with your audience and
really understanding and making sure that you have what I would consider a very actionable
segmentation in place that is fundamentally tied to your growth metrics. If you don’t have that, I wouldn’t do anything
until I had that in place. Then and only then, you’re really looking
at, how do I develop and communicate a value proposition that matters to people in this
day and age? Then comes the digital marketing and the digital
transformation pieces of that. Again, I don’t call them digital transformation
pieces. I just say, “We need to get this job done. I’m trying to move this particular metric
from here to here. Here’s the way that I think I can do it. Here’s the evidence I built along the way
to try to show people how it can work without making a billion dollar investment.” On that note, I guess I would close and just
say, one of the things that I’ve really grown to appreciate here and something that has
always been part of my career is being super scrappy and making a lot of moves that are
very low risk that enable the data and show people how it can be done without being scary
and transformational leap. We have been speaking with Todd Unger. He’s the chief experience officer at the American
Medical Association. Todd, thank you very much for taking your
time today with us. It’s been great. Thanks for having me. Everybody, be sure to subscribe on YouTube
and subscribe to our newsletter. We have great shows coming up. Check out and we’ll see you again
next time. Have a great day, everybody. Bye-bye.

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