Cody Podcast Ep. 4 || Social Systems

okay there is so my name is penny podcast and this is Cody podcast marking the oversized warlock shirt with tarot cards today I'd like as soon as you click like to start I saw me and I was like gosh I look like I'm just small and like this big I think I was like twelve like my grandmother got it for me and I was like I'll go into it and it grew while I grew like a dress on me anyway so before we get into it I wanted to kind of introduce what this here is so a lot of people might be coming just for Cody podcasts but you may have noticed like me and Cody Wilder inviting you to like this page this is where our podcast as well as like some other content from some other creators who are all you know pictured here this is where we're gonna start posting our stuff basically we're kind of like joining forces to basically you know share like share you know audiences and kind of get like our name or out there to maybe people who want to see different kinds of content but aren't necessarily looking for it so like if someone from our podcast comes here and it's like oh okay you know the podcast is on Mondays there's also this guy that livestreams and like Let's Plays and maybe you like want to check that out or like our skits or you know at some point it might be doing movie and game reviews so that's kind of what we're trying to do we've got people who basically love to create things and we're just basically trying to get like more Ward out to everyone about everything if that makes sense so this is that's what this is it's basically like our joint Facebook and YouTube account it's called solving money productions as far as like the podcast goes we'll be starting to do episodes every Monday and then we'll release the individual topics for the podcast throughout the week probably starting on Thursdays so feel free to check out the other creators here there's some talented people that are going to be doing stuff on here as well so also expect a little bit of crossing with streams I suppose we're gonna have Cody's buddy Chris on here in there and there might even be some more I guess I don't probably be colluding a little bit with with their own individual projects I know they all know each other because they do their own kind of cooperative content creation so there shouldn't be a whole lot of between us bringing on one or some of them as guests and whatnot for particular discussions so so into the actual podcast so we're kind of discussing before we started like what we wanted to go into and like the thing that immediately came to my mind I'm not necessarily sure it's like what I want to talk about but I think it's gonna be a good springboard for a bunch of different other discussions is essentially like the state of the current economic system I always am just like oh capitalism you know like oh boy how about Ali you know it's really I think it kind of encompasses more than that there's a lot of stuff that's like going on right now it kind of makes the current economic climate kind of broken the social side of things as well it's not just like that the economy sucks and supposedly is bouncing back in a way or two but it really just depends on how you measure it I mean whenever economists talk about the economy they're talking about GDP so as long as as long as the the president's scorecard is looking good you know that means that the economy is booming but I mean most of GDP is just well it's money being spent but it's also problems being not particularly solved but ended or I should say instead of curing diseases we treat them you know I mean so like should GDP is like it's a viable metric in some ways but it's also a disincentive for positive I guess for progress really so to say that you we have any accurate measure of the economy based on something like GDP is and I cure it I think mmm I think obviously if we if we cured cancer you know that would be detrimental to the economy like we would lose so much money and so much TV and like profits would plummet and all this but that's that as one example there's that but yeah other than the economic side of things the social destabilization is bad too obviously I mean I guess I'll kind of jump right into it from there but the my big thing that I known about like the way the system is that we live in right now is that we're supposed to have a social system I need just like as higher thought beings we praise ourselves over other animals because we can congregate and actually communicate with each other and then the way groundwork for something it's and build together to live together and that would be the beginning of the social system and I mean you can define a social system in many ways I mean come up with your own definition of what a social system should be but then also on a separate note what the goal is and in my mind the goal of any social system is to take care of everybody within that system it's literally I mean if every man is for himself out in the wild then that means that one person has to be jack-of-all-trades they have to know how to how to clothe themselves and how to and how to grow and all the stuff that's why we started to come together you know I mean even predating the Neolithic Revolution there were there were still tribes of people who had their own individual you know roles that they played so we've had social systems for a long period of time well before you know recorded human history I mean and then most of it was more egalitarian now the social system I mean it wasn't obviously like over at night but like there has been an evolution since the Neolithic Revolution with the very serious introduction of property growing things of that nature that led to the like inequity of goods and possessions and that of course people wanted to protect their things as they went so of course like I stayed evolved and such and now we're at this point where there are so many people that go with in like absolute deprivation and it's been hyper normalized over time like we don't even care it's a given that they're going to be poor people or that people are going to die of starvation but like what was the point of the social system again you know or we survive like take care of ourselves at each other that's kind of the whole reason we even like orient ourselves together to begin with but it has become like a game of competition where some have to be on the top and it's just the way it is yeah I think you hit on two points that I like wanted to bring up regarding this for me this all started with like a conversation about capitalism and like what it means to like be for capitalism what it means to be against capitalism and like I had a discussion with someone on my facebook who I very much respect but also don't always agree with what they say and of course me and him are both very strongly based in our opinions so it was something where we were both basically having a conversation knowing we're kind of changing the person but that kind of what you were just saying kind of brings up two points I brought up there which is like if the whole thing about a current like socio-economic system is that like you said I feel like the whole goal is probably to try and take care of at least of as many people as possible right and when you literally have it's not even just poor people like you have people that have like mental illnesses and because they don't make enough money they can't treat those illnesses and then they go into the street there's a reason that like mental illness is so prevalent among homeless people right it's not because going homeless makes you insane although I'm sure that that might also be part of it but you know I think a lot of people in America are just one paycheck away from basically being on the street and some of that sure is due to like improper we usage of our funds and like living beyond our means but I don't think that's everyone a man just can't be I mean we're kind of rooted in living beyond our means now ever since the big credit boom you know I say yeah it's like they're people most people even I would say today despite the fact that I know many people who don't think this way I think most people today believe there is no way to live without a credit card yeah or at least some form of some form of maybe not a credit but some sort of debt they haven't maybe not like an open line of credit but yes I'm on some sort of debt for sure and usually starts with schooling for a lot of people at least that's the first yeah at least in our age group for sure but yeah I mean how how well is that system working if you can go mentally ill like go schizophrenic or develop you know other mental illnesses that you can't treat that land you you you know out of a job we're out of a situation which you're able to take care of yourself like how does it how good is a system work if people who fought for this country in Vietnam I know I'm hitting heartstrings here and like some of this is from an argument but like come on if you're gonna use it against me I'm gonna use it against you you know how good does the system work when these vets are also like incredibly like there's a high number of there's a higher number of like veterans they're homeless than there is a like the general population right you know like and that kind of also plays into like even getting past like the economics of it like that plays into like you know kind of what we I was saying like last week with that show about the prison system and like they interview the killers right there is no rehabilitation like if you're not a minor it's just punishment that's all that they that's all you anyone cares about like how is that system work if our prisons are like consistently 98 percent full they're so full that they can't now properly run the prisons without having it continuously be that full so they've made that essentially made like quotas that they have to meet it has to be X amount full at all times right yeah it's a for-profit prisons yeah but that goes into a couple of things I don't want to like keep jumping off so definitely like stop me but there was a while back me and a bunch of guys at work pretty much anybody who has any form of conversation by that we're on a sort of I guess it was kind of an open debate about I guess free will does it exist that kind of thing and me the as far as like what I believe it's you know environment is everything I mean you can be brought up in whatever particular conditions and be totally different from somebody else you know it's it's not I mean a small percentage of it as genetics but genetics are malleable rishis are malleable so it's and they are malleable because it being fire – so like the idea that anyone really has free will if they're conditioned day in and day out like every waking moment of their life every moment of perception where they're taking in the information around them they're conditioned one way then they don't particularly have the free will to do or say what they want if you put them on a track that leads to these negative things that would land them in jail then they don't really have the choice to begin with so almost in the same sense there's like the big made about like addiction and that was like really I mean on Facebook it got pretty popular I think they're saying addiction is not a choice but then some people were like playing this weird middle ground where they were like well it's a choice at first but when you decide to put that needle in your skin or whatever then beyond that it's you know it's addiction and then you can't help it and they need help but like to believe that somebody is put in that situation and that feels no other recourse then for some kind of like mental escape you know that's that doesn't really sound like freewill to me that sounds like that sounds like somebody's backed into a corner that doesn't have any other recourse and if there is other recourse it's usually detrimental to somebody else around them instead of just themselves that's how that's how you get some sort of like domestic violence or something like that see can I go ahead and interrupt we're probably gonna actually at this point because like I said I kind of wanted to use that more as like a jumping point yeah so maybe this is where if we jump – and then we stick here for a bit it sounds good you can always tell us if they want us to expand on anything well here's here's the thing – is like I feel like a lot of times we just agree on things and then we just expand on like each other's thoughts and that's fun but I also want to have points that we're not gonna agree on and kind of like explain each others that sounds like conflict that's terrifying so here's the thing you know obviously I'm more Christian with Christians freewheels always like what are the Protestant Christian freewheels always like I've been a big thing right but like with Mormons it's like a really big thing because like you have basically are like one of our core beliefs or core like things that they'll always like kind of try and stress is you have the freedom to choose exactly what you do but you do not have the freedom to decide what the consequences of your actions are okay so like that obviously resonated with me that's why I'm part of the Church of Latter day Saints now right but like so I understand and respect where you're coming from because I think to say that the environment cannot affect you at all is just silly right like that's just absolutely stupid right but I do think that you do have free will and as hard as it is to control like what your choices are you still alternately do have choices to overcome those sorts of situations so I will elaborate yes I don't believe that free will doesn't exist I don't want to give that kind of an idea I saw them in a I believe that environment equips you with free will or it doesn't so if you are I mean we've seen we all have that person on our friends list or that we've met who is so hopelessly ingrained in their personal belief system not just not religion but like thought processes like in heavy super hard-hitting Republican angry racist whatever the heck you know we all know that person and we have that person in our mind that we can go to whenever we think of someone who under those you know that person I would believe does it not have free will because they've been so conditioned that instead of being taught how to think they've been taught what to think so as soon as before before anything I can tell you what this person might say or do in response to me saying something to them it's almost a pre calculated response that they don't worry no of but like once they hear something their response is so predictable think that what kind of free will really is there it is there in that versus somebody who is we're so taught how to think instead of what to think so taking the information to apply it to all information that you already had within you and then form a calculated response that is not just a snap react yeah listen to understand instead of listening to response that was like one of my favorite I thought it's funny that you say that because my wife uses that all the time on me and she's not wrong she's not wrong but yeah that's that's what I wanted to say just to clarify because I do think that if your tie at least obviously schools today kind of just teach you how to memorize things yeah and is not good not good but if we were more so taught how to think in my mind a perfect system is one that takes in all emergent information applies that to all pre-existing information and when we lay it to new or updates right exactly and updates constantly as it goes instead of holding on to core belief system and anything that comes in either it agrees with it then you take it in or it doesn't agree with it and then you push that information aside like you need to really basically say that you believe anything 100% is dangerous it's not good and you need to you need to be at ease with the idea that you could be wrong about everything that you believe you know so that is being an open system I mean that I think being more open with your thoughts and that like not only do I am I not opposed to being proven wrong I want to be proven wrong because I want new information to come in and change the way I see things yes okay and that to me is free would one of you lock it down and then you have like that cognitive dissonance where something would oppose your current views and you just shut it down immediately that's a closed system that would be the lack of free will versus having free will is being able to actually be emergent with information maybe that's a pretty specific definition but in my mind that's what that is because if there's already a pre-calculated response to something that comes to some foreign bit of information then it's not free will because it's exactly that as you say one I say zero a zero zeros it's like you know that never it never changes the way I said was probably like the worst way to say you say one I say zero and you say zero I say one like would probably be a better gray instead of like I guess the idea of binaries is also like a side effect of a closed mind I would think it's either this or that and I say it's just if you say it's that then we don't agree or you're wrong or something like that you're right as opposed to saying everything is like a graveyard seeing things as well this is what I believe but it's not what this person believes like yeah I can get behind that I could even go like a step further where I would say like I wouldn't say this for every situation right but like I would say this like for you know if you're born into a horrible family that's you know drug abusers and alcoholics and you know like I mean at that point I think most people already understand that like it's not just that you were you know brought into this life with a backhand it's that you weren't caught in with like a hand at all basically right you know like there's certain situations where something can happen that and it doesn't necessarily have to be bad either like you can be born soup into a super rich family with parents that absolutely adore you and like push you to do all your dreams and all this stuff and it's like okay at that point you basically have no choice but to succeed you know like there's certain like when you're born onto the far end of the spectrum on either side then I feel like yeah I mean obviously stop choices stuff free will but like you compared the guy who was born the rich successful loving family to the guy who's like born to the parents that just like are looking for the next hit and it's like you can't look at this kid and no matter like how well he does he could make the best like most biggest most you know profitable corporation on the planet that brings about the global one-world government and he's still not gonna have to put in as much as this guy if that makes sense because this guy has to start like it literally zero and this guy might be starting somewhere you know on a different on a different track and even then there's so I wouldn't say necessarily the free will is done but I would say like you you cannot judge people on that you can't judge those two people with same right I mean there's still like intense pressures on both sides and both of them are just as susceptible to different forms of like neuroses I mean the way Gabbar monta said it was there are things that should happen that don't and there are things that shouldn't happen that do and both can have the same obviously on one end you have that kid who is in that terribly like socially unsustainable environment of like they only get exposed to their parents and their parents are like angry violent people or on drugs or whatever and there's gonna be abuse there's gonna be a bunch of like negative act like negative effects that's obviously the things that shouldn't happen that do and on the flip side you have somebody who is particularly pampered and so supposedly has it all and there's all these pressures for this person to be this you know shining example even though they don't know what they're doing and then that could lead to a few examples of things that should happen don't so there's not like like a proper upbringing there's not like a an obstacle to overcome that where you feel like you deserve what you've gotten there the status that you're in you know either way I mean there's a lot of different ways both of us can tie in but obviously one is a little more obvious you know whether you have somebody who is abused as a kid and they're coming from a poor family those are like the biggest indicators that that person is going to lash up with some negative way in their adult life we found also leads into like another thing that I could talk about for ages which is basically I forgot where it's yeah you were there I was I was right there and I just I started talking I completely forgot shoot I don't know I feel like I've been doing that I feel like I've had this exact moment with my wife so many times because like me and her talk about stuff like this you know sometimes right yeah and like I'll be like yeah that thing and that reminds me of this exact thing that I was talking about which is blank yes that's a god playing the sins he just deleted reactions like what why am I in the kitchen sets down plate walks away backtrack a bit I mean it was obviously there's an environment there's free will or the lack thereof was like the core things I mean yeah I feel like that's I feel like honestly like even if I can't remember what I was about ready to say like we've done a fairly decent if it comes back later yeah the amount of information on this topic so sometimes you want to jump to your do you want to backtrack to something right before because you earlier you were saying two things and then two things and then we took one of the branches right yeah well the branch that we ended up taking was essentially like how good is a system that is supposed to take care of its people with it doesn't fit just straight-up doesn't for some people that's one of the big things for me people will say capitalism works but like what by what definition does it work I mean it functions in a sense that some people survive and I mean it's a good percentage of people that survive but not much more than who used to in a more egalitarian system I mean people still survive here and there it's just to what level of success right to a level of like happiness to a level of comfort comfort yeah like there's there's so many other things there and obviously we are so like technologically capable of taking care of everybody on the planet and we make no steps towards doing that like zero like we've been able to do it for I mean what was it I think Buckminster Fuller made a made an estimation and it was like I can't no gosh that was that was like the the fifties the sixties maybe I don't have to go back and double-check don't quote me on that but basically he did what was considered to be the only actual global survey of the earth's resources and it was also very familiar with her we were too technologically at the time and he said we need the we there are enough resources on the planet to take care of everybody and that would be attainable with like a 12 percent increase in technological efficiency and then here we are like what twenty thousand times times more efficiency than what we had back then my gosh and of course we have made no strives to take care of people that are in need I mean of course that can get into a few different areas you know one of which would be what isn't isn't a human right which is a whole conversation in itself but I would argue that that evolves over time you know even a right is on my in my mind so I started a writing project a while back and I I'm pretty sure hosted it I don't think it was sitting on the backburner basically there was like a few steps of like what as far like a commodity like when it becomes a right and in my mind or right would be associated with anything that could easily be given to everybody in surplus and still not affect the masses like if we can if it is technologically possible for us to feed every single human being on the planet and still be in excess then to me at that point that becomes a right and we already make enough fruit for that and we still have the capability to make even more food we just shut it off because of supply and demand in certain areas but like as much as we throw away everyday we can feed everybody who dies of starvation and be fine you know so like there's probably more examples with them that but in my mind if and then like for like a social system to be this technologically advanced and still make no strive to take care of anybody I mean Peter Joseph College an anti social system I think that's probably more accurate than any other way I feel like I mean oh no I wouldn't say it like feel I feel like at that point when you have the capability this is something that I have to deal with like a lot and I want to say it works because it's not just at work like anytime you've got like an application or like a databasing is like it's huge in database because like the question is the question you used to be back when storage was a major factor of limitation mm-hmm the question used to be do we really need this information now the question basically is do we have the capability of getting the information because like network speed can be is still a limiting factor but storage is like just not like it's just not at all especially if all you're storing is like bits in text numbers so it's like do we have the capability to store the information yes then why are we not as a poet sky know what it reminds me of here is like do we have the capability to feed everybody yes then why are we not like it becomes like just like with like a job like if your database administrator and you have the capability to get the information you just don't like that's just negligence like that's just something that could be potentially punishable by your employer in the same way I feel like this is like almost a criminal act to be able to feed people and give people shelter and just absolutely not try like that's criminal and I wouldn't say that's criminal like you the viewer or like us but like as a society we need to step back and go okay then what what like what's really important here like we can put our individual values wherever we want and that's fun and honestly for me I feel like that's where the most benefit at least in this current system comes from is from the individual from individual efforts from individuals saying my moral compass points me in this direction so I'm going to do these things for people right but like at some point you have to step back as a society and say okay is is the system in place actually working what our societal values because right now essentially if you just buy into the system that's in place and don't really question it then you're basically as good as saying my individual values are we should feed everybody but my values for our society are we don't care yeah you know like there's there's an inherent like visible hand yeah there's an inherent like a contradiction there right yeah and maybe it's I mean you could you could say I would I would liken it or I would rather Astra Butte that too hyper normalization you know it was I mean the fact that we have so many sensors out there as far as like data collection kind of seem like your or if I get something off of that there being so many more sensors now than there used to be so many more cameras now that there used to be and access to all this information more so than there used to be it's like anything that you want in the world to be front and center can be front and center but somehow it's not the homeless person on the side of the road you know it's not the starving people that just happen to be on the other side of our invisible borders email well and the other thing that I feel like you need to bring up wait you should bring up here is that like this is not like understand for a lot of people who don't really get out much like that they may not see this as a major issue but like here where we are which I mean I feel like it's on the Facebook page so I'm just gonna say where we're at Knoxville Tennessee the homeless issue here has gotten so much worse like over like the past like decade like you know like I sometimes go to work like downtown and it's literally impossible not to walk by homeless people and you're in the way into your building with your fancy desk and your you know central heating and air and they're multi-monitor PC yeah like and I'm not saying like having that evil it's necessary it's part of like what I do and what I do is important because I feel like this is not just like I'm not self aggrandizing here I'm saying like what you do for your job is important right but you can't look at like the gifts and the blessings that you have and then literally walk by that person and not feel something at the very least like I'm not saying like I've personally like I don't give money to homeless people I've just seen it too many and heard too many stories about them just going getting liquor what but like like if someone asked me for food on the street and I have the capability like the cash to buy them food like buy them a meal right I will take them into a store buy them a meal and give them the meal and say okay here's your meal you know like mm-hmm that's I don't know how far into that I would agree or really even have a talking point because I I mean obviously I was I mentioned before I am for UVI and like a lot of people is worried about that it's like just giving people money to do whatever they want with it's not a good idea we should give them like food stamps and whatever so we know that they're spending it on whatever men like I don't necessarily agree with that that is one direction for the conversation but something I wanted to play off of that you mentioned was like you mentioned basically walking past the homeless person on the street and then you having so much I'm not feeling better or how how could you not feel bad anything I I have like my own idea of it's like basically I'll say it this way there is a standard of living mm-hmm and I think I've even mentioned this with you before probably even on camera but I think the standard of living is something that rises with technology and there's also of course the issue right alongside that of relative deprivation not necessarily absolute deprivation where you are without the life necessitating needs but also relative deprivation in the sense that even though that you were living fine right now in this house if you were you know you could look out your window and see like like a hyper wealthy person next to you driving their Tesla with you know like a much much better clothing and like much nicer things and like it still makes you feel inferior and that still has like mental effects but aside from that between where we are in technology and what that could mean for everybody if that was if we had like in like an equity of I guess like economic equality per se like there is some kind of a middle ground that everybody should be able to have access to X amount of technology or X level of technology or something like that as a minimum and I mean when obviously like the easiest thing to compare to right now would be like a smartphone like everybody should be able to have a smartphone there literally so so many and a lot of them just get traded in thrown away broken down and whatnot even though there's so many more made constantly that are just sitting on shelves and what-have-you like that's a sort of technology that is already so readily available that if you don't have one either you choose not to have one because you're you're old you don't want to learn it or whatever or you can't afford one and that limits your access to the information that's available so anyways I'm going to deep in one direction but basically what I'm getting at is there's that line and if you are beneath that line it is because you make enough money to get by maybe you can afford the rent on your place but you would so much rather have a nicer PC that could make you more comfortable at home or have the more home sensors to make it like a little bit easier you know that since it's such a common technology that should be something that everybody should be able to want and not feel bad for wanting you know because it's so common it's already been around for a little bit it's pretty easy and cheap to make but like we if we are under that line should not feel bad in comparison to somebody else who was like beneath us especially if it's someone who's like like homeless and whatnot I mean if anyone should really feel bad that they need to give up what they have it's anybody about that who is incredibly wealthy who is like well above that line whenever they could literally be the ones and care about it's not wrong for me and you to aspire to want better things because we are still below what would be that technological equivalent of like a standard of living like where we could be if we if we had like pure equity if we took all the resources in the world and like actually like had the most up-to-date technology for every person everybody would be living so much more comfortably so much would be automated and it's not wrong to want that you know I think we deserve to be a certain level of lazy we have gotten to that point our predecessors or ancestors that worked so hard to get us a particular technology just for us too we still need to work from the bottom to get that like that's ridiculous right an idea that we would need to pay for the education if somebody else went out of their way to discover as far as like a bit of information like that should be readily available at everybody but the idea that somebody else needs to go into debt to learn something that should be just free available information and then have to work so much of their life usually monotonous job just to pay for that old information that already existed if they could have had access to they really just kind of wanted to be in an environment where everybody wants to learn together you know like the idea that we have such like we that line of like standard of living is like so high to me where it should be and everybody else is so far below that and we have this weird culturally appointed low level of a standard of living to where literally I mean what's the poverty line it's like twelve thousand a year if you make twelve thousand a year then you're below the poverty line and there's that really is it really that was something it was super low it was super low and I can't remember exactly what the number is but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't we can show it be that would be almost minimum wage that would be less than that I mean I've been all my life and I mean when I worked 40 hours minimum wage and pulled home like me sixteen to eighteen thousand a year you know like that's really really low and to be able to think that I mean that's somehow you can live off at least at least here at least play Queen yeah when we are a rent like the cheapest rent you can find that's gonna be like a reason a reason ibly safe area and not have like tons of problems like roaches and stuff even then I mean probably looking at like what the minimum would probably be like 550 600 my cheapest that I found whenever me and my buddies were looking for a place we got a three-bedroom apartment off of 440 a month incredibly cheap and probably some areas of it were not so great but like ours was decent but it was the cheapest and in my mind that should have been the worst you know even the cheapest that we saw was that 440 so applying mat a minimum wage means bi-weekly you're taking home 550 500 550 something like that yeah maybe maybe 600 if they let you get overtime which they don't they're not going to yeah they're not even let you work full-time like a few few few places will but then they're also like supposed to offer you and even if you took the benefits they take so much out of your paycheck and they're so crappy right yeah there's like even if you lived in mystically it's like for 40 month is the cheapest that I saw and I think it even got as low as 384 like maybe a 1-bit other say I've seen 300 but there's no way I'd ever take it that's scary but even going on for that 300 but still I mean that's almost a whole paycheck ya know if that and then like food if you want to eat cheap it's like gosh I mean it depends do you want to work all the hours in the big sauce when you get home and like not have the energy to make food so you have to like buy groceries and then have to make your own food and then like eat and then clean up after something you're still just busy all day long okay can I you know I stop you for just a second you're touching right on something that I just I don't even it's gonna take that long I just I hate the argument that minimum wage should not be able to sustain you I used to very much would be all along that bandwagon of minimum wage should just stain you and it should just be a high school job I used to be all over that bandwagon I hate that argument now because I I can't tell like here's the thing okay like yes if you use that argument if you use that argument like honest-to-goodness if you use that argument please don't tell me you lived six years seven years with your parents after high school don't tell me that I've been in that boat that's why I stopped using that argument and a system where you are forced to work stupid jobs that I'm sorry they are underpaid I've been part of a known wage jobs or I felt like I was overpaid I quit that job I hated that I figured out that I actually liked being work hard right like but there aren't minimum wage jobs that overwork you if you have never been to a McDonald's a.m. you've never worked at McDonald's they still only pay some minimum wage even here where most of the fast-food starts at like eight fifty nine dollars now like McDonald's still pays minimum wage it is horrible work it is seriously like for what you do for what you physically do is very underpaid and there ain't no way you're making a living off of that no and you're supposed to tell me that I'm supposed to do that through high school through college like somehow pay for my debt that I'm going to accrue like my 40 grand a debt and then be also like able to work an internship for two years and Mike get a job like I went through that I've been through that I've worked three jobs at a time while going to night school like you can't tell me that minimum wage shouldn't support a person when you also are telling me that I have to spend at least four years if not more realistically like six to seven years leeching off in my case my parents right just to get a job that essentially affords me to live like comfortably but also I'm going to end up having to pay back like all this debt like you can't you can't have it both ways either you think either you think that this is how it should be and you should justly chop your parents for seven years our parents weren't raised like that I'll tell you that right now my dad had a house at 18 hmm or you believe that minimum wage job should be able to support you like nah I'm not saying they should support your lifestyle I hate that argument too because I'm not saying you should work a minimum wage job and be able to have a cushy house of three TVs like I'm saying if you work minimum wage you should be able to afford it a you know 300 to 400 square foot one-bedroom apartment yeah it shouldn't be able to get the basic life necessities yeah be a sink yeah yeah like a studio bedroom apartment a daybed a TV a sink Internet and a bathroom and that's it lady but Internet is important that's that kind of goes back to where I was before – it's like internet didn't used to be that but now it's so crucial you can't they can't employ most places right well there's yeah I mean that's kind of a big but in general to be connected is such it's like it's demanded you know right like it's it's such a crucial part of what being a human is today so enacted I will say it seems like this is where our opinions might differ a little is because it seems like you're saying that the ability to be social is like probably what you would have described as like a right basically in the modern day and age with the current technology it would I be correct and kind of I mean thinking that I guess like it sounds to me like what you're saying is that people should be able to have a living where they can be sociable on social media etc where they should be connected and have access to have access to the human hivemind of information okay so in the same way that we all had access to this free library now the library is the entire internet where all information right see so I was misunderstanding you know I was thinking you meant more the social aspect like social media well social media is kind of the same I mean it's I mean where you could still instead of like physically going out to a bar to hang out with friends like it the fact that it can happen digitally and it does so frequently that should also be a thing too like anything that you can do free even in like physical reality by walking somewhere in seeing someone talking to them or going to read a book at a library anything that you can do for free physically you should be able to do for free digitally mm-hmm and I believe that is kind of tied in with that I think we both okay so obviously and we may be differed on opinions I think we're both kind in the same moment maybe for different reasons like to me like when I say like you should be most of yourself a minimum-wage job like what to me that means is you should be able to afford things they allow you to make that living in other words I believe someone should be able to afford like the base package internet service wherever they're living not necessarily because of like information purposes or like social purposes but specifically because I don't know of a single place of employment right now that will actually accept a paper application and that shift makes it more in my mind that makes it more imperative rush it because it's like you literally can't even you can't you want to contribute to society yes exactly at least by society's current standards but then I really you can't do somebody else would say go to the library get on their computer and apply for jobs and it's like that's slightly degrading to start but there also you would need transportation to to get there to get there and there is public transportation but then it's like that's also seen as degrading to you in a way and it still costs some sort of something or other like right yeah so I mean I just think I like and the fact that you would be able to do all that or at least to be able to go there for free you should be able to do that for free let me offer I guess I think it in my mind maybe it's extreme but I do think that like Internet should be free at least at a like minimal bandwidth so everyone can get access information obviously streaming would be a little different right like to be able to access Facebook to be able to access websites to apply for it to the base the base bandwidth to be able to use the Internet as it was used when it was first getting popularity in the 90s and early 2000s yeah yeah we're basically the biggest thing about the internet was not streaming or video it was or even entertainment it was information again email basically it was communication and information which I mean still that stuff doesn't take I mean your bandwidth can essentially be dial-up you're in you're in kilobytes yeah there's like nothing there as to kind of take a step back give me the 2010 figure for a family of four with no children under 18 years of age is twenty two thousand five hundred forty one dollars well the figure for a family of four with two children under 18 is twenty-two thousand one hundred so basically twenty-two thousand dollars for for human beings so I guess that is kind of about we're about right because if you split that in half and you say the two parents would be independent then that would be about eleven thousand for the property one for that one person with accounting for a kid and even without a kid eleven thousand dollars a year they literally impose its yeah completely impossible literally impossible well and here's another thing and we talked about this on a dry run essentially and we talked about this on the podcast that we recorded but ended up not being able for one reason or another to edit and upload and we're getting back into how you can tell people that the economy has has been inflated like that the value of the dollar has been inflated or not inflated like it has been decreased and they will argue with you like you can say yeah and then you say by how much and they argued with you they literally ignore facts and they're like there's no way that's right like it's like okay so really the biggest the biggest one I hear all the time and I hear it because I work the place I work is like relatively like conserved it I'd say I am too but like I just can't buy into this where they like someone will be talking about like I joined back and you know like the 70s or 80s and I started at 325 and it's like are you trying to use that as a trump card on my generation because that was worth more than what our 725 is worth now yeah and they're like I don't believe that and it's like okay how much was how much was bread how much was a bag of bread like when you were as it's like three dollars now it is it is has half an hour's worth of work now just to get bread mm-hmm it's like I bet you bread was probably a quarter back then I don't know let's look it up look sure yeah I guess it depends on what year hikes in the 70s right so I guess I mean that wouldn't be let's just say oh that's nice what groceries used to cost and this is coming straight from a Guf site oh it's from an Australian website well I mean well let's see here how much things did much did things cost okay let's see here average cost of a loaf of bread in the 80s was 50 cents and in the 70s it was 25 cents okay so wow that's interesting the 30s it was 10 40s it was 11 so there's basically no increase 50s it was a teen fare increase 60s at this 25 fare increase 77 DS was 25 like no increase and then 80s was 50 cents and it's just basically kept doubling since well no in the nineties it was 70 cents in 2008 it was 279 yeah and they're saying it's actually gone down since then and I could I can get behind that because I know I've seen Bradford like butter yeah be enriched yeah the idiot rich bread where it's like that's you know it's literally like government mandated he can't yeah but and that's what I'm saying it's like 325 a value of bread would have been what would have that been three times four which would be four eight twelve thirteen though I've been one 13th of your take-home and $3 now it's nearly half of your of your take-home per hour and people just think they don't want to look at facts and I know that we just used like a website that's clearly not a government website yeah but like if you look up like on I don't remember if it's there's a particular website a gov website it's like literally run by our government yeah and they that that website they actually compiled up a report from all the statistics basically proved that the average median income in the US is still the same as it was in the 70s for people between 25 and 30 and yet the obviously the cost of everything has gone so like I think it was 22 or like maybe 24 was like the median income 25 to 30 year-olds like in the 70s or 80s I believe it was and like it's still that today that's terrifying and I don't think like I think what it is is I think the reason that average is out like obviously there's inflation that's the big point but I think the reason that average is out today is not because everybody's working it still like around 22 to 24 I think because a lot of people are working at like 11 or 12 essentially minimum wage and then they're offset the average is offset by the amount of the small amount of workers who are working at 50 and above essentially in that age range that sounds about right yeah I mean like it doesn't help that I mean gosh like the minimum wage just never changes and if they can if people can use that as like a bar like a standard here's my thing okay so we're getting to the end of the podcast okay just real quick you you just touched on something and I think we're both kind of headed in the same direction I think I think the minimum wage is fundamentally flawed oh yeah I mean like I didn't think too much on whatever somebody said it back in the day but now like it means so much more thinking on it now at the time I definite was not quite as aware I guess as I am today but whenever I was working at when I was working in fast-food I was making minimum wage like was 725 and some older person I know the older than me I mean like I was 19 at the time I guess I didn't have to start working in tolls 19 because I was you know definitely youth ablest and that respect I was lucky but the person that I was working with was like easily 30 maybe older and they said I can't stand being paid minimum wage because it's the employers literally saying if I could pay you less I would yeah and that never really resonated with me at the time and I was like you know kind of like alright well they can't and whatever and obviously I was just like too young to think deeply about it but like like me now looking back on that it's like that's obviously literally what it was and if we drop the minimum wage you would see tons of jobs pop up paying minimum wage and that's terrifying like that's just something that came to my mind but like yeah it's it's definitely flawed and it has like no real like I don't think that they actually have a serious reference point for coming up with a minimum wage I don't think so either like here and I agree with everything we just said but here's why I personally think the minimum wage just flow is because it doesn't essentially when they say the same thing as you it's a patch job it's it's not the real way to handle it would be to incentivize companies to work you for what you're worth that would be the proper way to do it now it's just specifics I can't give any I'm not obviously not an economist I and there's just a lot I don't know I know where my knowledge is I know where it ends you can admit that I'm a big concept guy I'm not little details of economy right but like that would be the proper way to do it is to take your take the government out of it essentially other than to incentivize companies to properly treat their workers on but there's two issues with that now that makes minimum wage just all the more of a band-aid is that they're not being incentivized at all so literally if they could be less than what that's where that saying comes from is there's no incentive for them to pay you any more than what they're required to by law right and it's hell to get a raise yeah well it's some places at least and then the other thing is that I don't know the best way to put this into words I'm going to blink on this again yeah I couldn't find a way to put it into words and then I blanked out completely on it the no in the base description nothing no yeah I would say I honestly get more important of those two points right yeah which is that the proper ways to incentivize the companies right and that's a it's like it's to empower the other thing is is that they're the companies are all monopolies in oligarchies so like you know the whole incentive thing would work unless it's that situation because then at that point basically all the companies can just get together and go okay there's ten of us and we make all the products in the world let's just let's just say screw this law like there's no incentive like if you have an incentive and companies take that and most companies take that incentives the ones that don't take the incentive to pay their workers proper and get that government bonus or tax break or whatever right now we're gonna eventually die off because it won't be able to keep workers but you can't argue the whole vote with your feet you can't make that argument anymore the vote with your feet argument because all the companies are not saying all of them but like you look at any particular industry and there's like 10 companies on everything right movies 10 companies on everything Disney Sony Warner Brothers and then pretty much all the offshoots of one of those you could even go further saying that some of those are owned by Comcast which obviously goes into Internet you know it's like Comcast Verizon t-mobile and AT&T and they own everything yeah foods it's got Monsanto that's obviously like the big one you know and then like you got you know like if you're not reproduction you got like your Kellogg Nestle Nestle is like in everything now yeah you know like and that's kind of where like my second point is going it's like innovation works if everything if you have enough people to make it work if you have enough companies to people you because the whole idea is is that you incentivize the companies you don't give them any punishment and the incentive itself is enough to make the companies do what you want them to do and pay the workers proper because if the workers are being paid properly just go to another company right but doesn't work if ten companies can collectively go and whatever screw this and then just do whatever they want right because that's exactly what they'll do is just like the internet space you know Time Warner and Time Warner slash Comcast and AT&T you know like they might offer services like in the same areas but a lot of times they won't they will come to a contractual like agreement that this is where my Comcast district ends and this is where your AT&T district begins thus limiting everybody to exactly one service provider even if they do have a choice it's always a situation between like to sometimes shitty companies but in general it's like you don't really have freedom of choice when there's only two yeah you can't use the argument about with your feet anymore and that's how it is it's like pretty much every industry it's I mean that's one of the contradictions of capitalism I rather just market economics in general like markets have a tendency like inherently have the tendency to lean towards the Sun Peter Joseph was talking about but they inherently have the tendency to lean towards monopoly and cartel always yeah it's either one of those words the rest or they all make an agreement yeah and it's it's a natural tendency and the you could argue that the creation of the state was in order to keep that from happening or at least to regulate the externalities in the market and whenever that happens have these companies that will eventually become the monopolies or the cartel and then they get so big that they have so much money that they have so much influence that they have been influenced the law makers within the state to instead of creating regulation to keep them in place to create regulation for them to flourish right and to shut down any startups and annoying startups and things like that so basically like I would say that I'm not surprised I'd say that that is the natural gravitation and the ultimate and result and if there's anything that is not like that if there's any industry that is not like that yet it is honest way to be yeah so easily so well I think we're looking at an hour in six minutes so we're gonna end it on doom and gloom yeah so tune in to the to the next coding podcast and we'll we'll entertain you with talk about video games and fun technology non-scary technology yeah that you can pretend are other words are not going to kill us with right yeah the way the other ways you distract yourself from the things that are really happening yeah exactly so have a good one guys to take care until next time

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