Can LGBTQ+ and Christians See Eye To Eye?

-This is a physical manifestation of love.
This is glorious and beautiful, and any god which denies me for this
I don’t want to have a part of. -On the left-hand side can I have my LGBT folks,
on the right-hand side and I have my conservatives. -“There are times when I feel uncomfortable
expressing my views around sexuality.” -I am uncomfortable, primarily because the bromance
of like, “Well, there’s two girls. Who’s the boy?” And then it really just breaks the ice, ’cause there’s like…
there isn’t supposed to be a boy. That’s why we’re there. I do my best to break the ice with the comedic deflection, which I’ve learned is a… self-defense mechanism, right? -I come from a very conservative community.
And so, you know, it just wasn’t talked about. The people I’ve had the most conversations
with about are actually my family, which is really weird because I came out to my
parents because my dad was going to be leading the protests at the pride festival
that my boyfriend wanted me to go to. -Wow.
-So um… -I’m a pastor as well. I’m also a community leader in Boyle Heights and in that community, there’s a large LGBTQ presence, so there’s that fear of really
coming out and saying what I believe, because I do love everybody and I don’t want to be
pushed to the side just because I have a certain feeling about, you know, any topic, really. -I just wanted to say to you- and, you know, it’s not the beliefs that sometimes I have a problem with or I think people have a problem with in general. It’s just like the actions from the belief So like it’s okay to have beliefs but if we like can be loving in our beliefs and you know how our actions Come from those beliefs and like I love that we’re having this conversation You know like trying to breach those like build a bridge (Presenter): Some sins are worse than others In the eyes of, you know, of the God, our worship,
I believe that any sin separates us from Him because He’s holy and pure. But at the same time I think there are certain sins that will have greater consequences Yea I resonate with that. For me, it would be you know killing another human is the worst. That’s it. Also, it Venn diagrams into abortion.
Taking the life of another is huge, is huge. (Presenter): Can I ask you two this? -Do you all see homosexuality as a sin?
-and if so, where on that scale? I don’t think a homosexual tendency or an attraction to somebody of the same gender is a sin. I think that’s a natural feeling. I think when you start engaging in a lifestyle and you act upon that tendency,
then, because it goes against what I believe God designed, then I think that’s clearly a sin. I just don’t believe in sin because I feel that sometimes being punitive about things can like make you repress things and like Instinctually, I was like but not acting on them would be a sin like that’s how it feels for me like being dishonest to myself That feels wrong (Presenter): At some point in my life I was taught that sex is wrong I guess like within the context, you know sex that’s outside the context of marriage and so I guess that’s how identified with the question I had a very strong religious upbringing and I ended up doing a lot of self-harm and I end up doing a lot of things just to try and cope with these urges that when I finally gave in to them, I mean this is This is a physical manifestation of love. This is Glorious and beautiful and any God which denies me for this? I don’t want to have a part of Because whatever this is I know for a fact to be a truth because it is the nature of love Yeah, just responding to your story It makes me sad to hear that That you decided to hurt yourself me too Yeah, I still hold on to What I believe are my beliefs but at the same time I wish there was a better way for you to Talk to someone and to process and to think through Reconciling how you feel with like what you may have been taught or have read through Scripture yeah, I mean and that’s the thing is I think there’s a lot of There’s a lot of cultural baggage I think around Christianity that isn’t necessarily inherently part of any biblical Christianity Even though I grew up in a Christian family, I was– I don’t recall ever being told that sex was wrong or it was a bad thing I think I grew up with the understanding that sex is a beautiful thing it was given to us as a gift to enjoy.
There’s a place where it’s it’s been designed for, a place where we can enjoy it. And there’s a place where it’s detestable in the sight of the Creator. The one who gave it to us. I just don’t like the idea that anything is really detestable. You know what I mean? -So I just don’t like the…
-But wouldn’t you say that even sex for you within certain context is testable? Like, like… -No because I don’t…
-Like if it’s non-consensual? -Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed.
-Like that’s pretty detestable, right? -So even in that context…
-But the things that I consent to are I think not det… Like that I have sometimes no control over if it’s non-consensual (Presenter): People should honor the pronouns others wish to be called -oh, oh, oh
-Hesitation’s a no I am all for this.
Like, I identify as they. People don’t consider it and I think that, like, having these conversations about how people want to identify It’s like really important in a way that we can move things forward and stuff Yeah, if you’re like, ‘Hey, if you don’t use… whatever you’re gonna get fined’ or whatever like that’s… I’m not a big fan of that. No these are conversations between us though, right? -Like yeah.
-But otherwise it’s just being respectful. Oh, the pronoun police *laughter* So for me I never correct people because many times people do confuse me as “sir.” I don’t–it doesn’t faze me. However, I’m born in a female body. I’m a “she” There are times where my girlfriend’s have said
‘oh my boyfriend,’ this and that just because of their comfort zone they don’t want to have to deal with the whole like social stigma So you’re comfortable with them presenting you as a male -when…
-It doesn’t faze me -Really?
-It doesn’t faze me at all because my identity and my expressions are masculine and I’ve come to the terms and the realization that I don’t need to chop up my body into different pieces to fit in the social little box that is “man” If you want to address me you can address me as “he” or “she” or “them” or “girl,” ‘Becky with the good hair,’ or “Beck”
*laughter* As long as the term is respectful, I will take it I mean I step back just because it’s a complicated topic. Because with language–language is powerful And so when somebody who I would consider a female wants to be called a male I would want to probably respect that but I still firmly believe that, you know, they’re– God created there to be man and a woman and umm– I would like to sit down and talk to that person in depth before leaning one way or the other. Yeah. But I think like focusing more on like building a relationship instead of just like grilling someone ‘Why do you feel–‘ you know what I mean? -Like just trying to connect–
-‘What’s wrong with you? Like why don’t you–?’
*laughter* -Just kidding.
-Like yeah. Let me sit down and– *laughter* -Dissect you like a–
-So you are like a pronoun police *laughter* (Presenter): America is heading in the right direction when it comes to inclusion and diversity For me its more like the youth are headed in like inclusion and diversity and I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s the institutions of power I think the youth are really moving our culture forward and like it’s encouraging to see Now I can’t imagine what it’s like to not be able to be who I am and having to hide so I think it’s good in that sense that people finally are living in a world where I can be who I am and I don’t have to be ostracized and I can be included and the reason why I didn’t step in is because you know, I have certain values that I think are from God And so that’s why I hesitated a little bit on do I come forward or not? Well, I have a question because I, you know I’m curious where the sanctity if your marriage comes in Like if you can only get married to one because you and God and that woman have a relationship that is perfect for you, I’m curious how that affects uhh… who we can marry?
-Yeah I don’t think the job of a Christian for example is to get people to behave in a certain moral way that’s in line with what the Bible says. I wouldn’t be one to say ‘You can’t marry. You can’t marry another guy,’ or ‘you can’t marry another girl’ I would say first of all God loves you, you know, God loves you. Yeah, so specifically talking about like prop 8 When prop 8 came out I was completely against it I thought it was foolish and and quite ignorant and by many churches supporting prop 8 We basically tell you–told the gay community that we don’t care about you. We don’t care about how you feel, what you think love is We’re just gonna mandate that you can’t marry who you say you want to marry We’re adversaries Yeah, we became adversaries and the church I think lost a great position and saying and coming to people saying like we love you (Presenter): People should have the right to have sex with anyone they want Anyone? Okay, yeah, alright.
-Consensually, right? Consensually? *laughter* With anyone? Okay. Yes in the term anyone except children -Yeah
-As humans we–and as creatures of a divine spirit We have the right to follow our instincts and our sexual urges without punishing ourselves for you know wanting a woman or wanting a man and So yeah. Anyone has a right to consensual love making So the reason why I step back and I–you guys would agree with me–but When I was 9 years old, I was touched by a family member And so You know that’s–I can’t step forward when and that question is asked And I know you guys wouldn’t agree with that And that’s you preferenced at the very beginning that you know, if at long it’s consensual and not kids but that was my experience and Yep Sorry about that. I resonate with as well. I mean I was as well, you know, and there wasn’t a family member. Thank God, however still Enough of a tumultuous problem that even when I came out as a lesbian I wondered if it had to do with that instant and definitely brought up and that’s why it was the first thing that I said, you know because You know one is innocent and doesn’t know Absolutely. (Presenter): I believe in a higher power I’d love to hear from your perspective of why you believe in a higher power? I mean the household I was raised in. Why not? the analogy of like you can’t–one cannot see love one cannot see air and it’s still there and you know I started going to more clergymen and Wanting to understand exactly, you know my ways of being in the image of a greater creator understanding I wasn’t a mistake You know, you know there is a higher source There’s definitely something that has given me these blessings that have nothing to do with me It has everything to do with a bigger picture of things I think for me, you know I was also raised in a very strong religious background and just as I cannot deny this part of me that this is the way I express love I’d be dishonest if I said that when I sat down and I prayed and I listened I didn’t hear Oh no! it’s time for the heathen *laughter* No, no. You have to stop. You are no mistake. I resonate with some of the things you said too.
Like, I do believe in a higher power I just don’t believe in like a typical higher power and I also like Highly believe in science. So I’m like, I believe in gravity as a higher power I believe in like entropy as a–you know like things that we that are out of our control and stuff and I want to always keep searching and always keep questioning and like Always trying to find like as much love as possible, I guess And I believe in other people’s gods, too Like I believe in that for y’all, you know what I mean? like if that’s what makes you a better person and makes you feel more yourself and feel more loved like
I believe in that, you know But I can’t say that I believe it for myself
because I don’t know I don’t want to cast all my eggs in one basket (Presenter): Guys, thank you friends. Thank you. I appreciate it. *laughter* Thank you! *laughter* (inaudible) Hey guys, this is Jason from Jubilee here. We hope you enjoyed another episode of Middle Ground We’d love to hear from you in the comments below.
Let us know what you thought about the episode Let us know what you thought about the issue and whether there was someone who changed your opinion or if there’s something that you agreed with or disagreed with We’d love to have a great discussion with you in the comments. As always make sure you click here to subscribe click here for more videos.
We will see you guys next time.

  1. This was a lot like my philosophy class we would talk out topics with my table my whole table except me was atheist

  2. A lot of people think ALL Christians HATE LGBTQ+ when not everyone does the Bible says love everyone no matter what

  3. This would have been more interesting if you had a Christian that used to be LGBTQ+. They aren't that hard to find.
    I've always seen LGBTQ+ that used to be a Christian but not vise versa.

  4. I will never understand why religious people get so anti gay. I am a strong believer in that they should be allowed a voice and I urge lgbtq people to allow them to speak but a lot of the time, religious people dictate how others should rub their lives. My parents are like that as they are religious, they fail to see and implement some of there gods fundamental rules. God lives all of his children. Everyone of us sin. The bible is very complex and can be interpreted in many ways. If God is real, I am certain that he did not want followers to dictate how others should live. He gave us our own free will and ultimately there would be a time for judgement. Whose to say god doesn't forgive lgbtq people, I believe he would. Why? Because we all are sinners and as lomg as lgbtq people strive to become better human beings and do good in this world, god would ultimate forgive. Religion can be so beautiful but humans seem to always ruin it by interpreting it and preaching it incorrectly. It's such a shame because the world would truly become a wonderful place if we could accept more people based on religion gender ethnicity race whatever. We are all humans.

  5. congratulations to everybody debating in that episode. That is what a debate should entail, Civility and respect. It does no good when we do nothing but yell at each other.

  6. The blue hair chick has to chill the fuck out with the side remarks and comments. "Oh here comes the heathens" "oh here come the pronoun police" like, fuck, she's the spitting image of what a bitchy angst lesbian is

  7. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to their beliefs but the actions someone takes is what people need to watch

  8. Given that, according to the christian belief system, god created Everyone in his own image, denying people who are following god''s plan (and following their genetic programming, as all people do, be they straight, Bi, gay, or whatever), anyone who dislikes LGBTQ+ people is a heretic.

  9. We made it this way is how the guy acts does and bla bla and girld does this that bla bla jadadjaha

    We made society. WE are allways going to have our genders but act different. Many people thinks their trans and not in that body but its just your type actually. If u feel like a boy u only and that u Act like a boy and like boy stuff but YOU MAY LIKE BOY STUFF OR GIRL STUFF BUT THATS ALWAYS GOING TO BE UR BODY THAT U WERE MEANT TO BE WITH unless ur gay doe

  10. It is unbelievable that so many people, especially in America I feel like, still believe in a god that is mentioned in a book written thousands of years ago and live by what is written in it. Religion is cancer

  11. I remember I used to be homophobic, because of my parents, I taught myself what homosexuality and bisexuality really was and the purpose of it, and now I don't have feelings or uncomfortable urges of homophobia. Homophobia in a sense is ignorance of a sexual lifestyle you don't understand.

  12. What was the point of this "Middle Ground"? There is absolutely no middle ground achievable in this topic. It's either one folds or the other, how would you have a compromise between thinking gay is okay and gay is not okay? Gay is maybe okay? That is still folding.

  13. People need to know they are already forgiven for past, present, and future sins. Jesus’ blood is enough to cover all sin. Therefore we need not live in shame but, repent take up our crosses and follow Him. Jesus paid the price and now it’s up to us to make the decision to follow Him. Don’t let your free will and emotions deceive you.

  14. I’m not trying to be offensive or anything. Just honestly curious. Is LGBTQ+ considered an illness? I have nothing against these people just like how I have nothing against those in wheelchairs or those who cannot see. But I’m just wondering has it been proven, scientifically, that this is some sort of illness.

  15. I appreciated how much empathy and common ground there was with these people. At the end of the day the respect they had for one another superseded their own personal views and that is what perpetuates a healthy society.

  16. so im christian but im also bi but im really really religious it doesn’t mean that i have something agains any sexuality ofc bc im bi myself but also bc i believe in god and i believe god loves me and that god loves everyone even tho theyre lgbtq+

  17. No God sees sin as equal. No sin is greater or lesser than the other. These “preachers” dont know the bible… yes homosexuality is a sin but Jesus loves all so he doesn’t care

  18. Our Heavenly Father destroyed the land of soddomin and Gomorrah with his own hands and the land still destituted eons later of his wrath upon it of the abominations to his creation between man and woman, can't nobody change that.

  19. Perhaps a gay subliminal Santa this year rated Revelation Chapters 1 14 Old Testament and definitely up his alley, glitching sleigh in midflight after ET 👽👾💀 phoned home. Our Heavenly Father alienated some rebellious angels in space stripped them ugly from Glory, can't nobody change that. Our Heavenly Father called them false gods in his commandments under his Covenant.

  20. The forbidden knowledge tree came with many branches and consequences and rotten apples from the forbidden knowledge tree with subliminal Santa Revelation Chapters 1 14 Old Testament. One bad apple don't spoil a bunch unless you put them in the same basket of Azzezel Jibrel Gabriel Uriel Ariel in the same basket of rotten apples.

  21. Christ taught how pray in secret because of the Fallen angels who try to incept prayers and Christ told them in the closet with the doors closed and ask of Our Heavenly Father in secret after he was tempted in the dessert with Satan.

  22. How many miles you think Christ walked across water , it's safe to say that Christ was determined about his Covenant , he walked across water to share it.

  23. The Roman's accepted the Virgin Mary and worshipped Mary before and after Christ Resurrection of whom said CHRIST died for sinners of the ones who Pierce him

  24. Remember the Sabbath day and keep it Holy of Our Heavenly Father commandments and Christ prescribed Saturday to be the Sabbath day in full filling that law of his Covenant.
    the Roman's accepted the Mary without a Thorn and change the Sabbath day to Sunday without authority from Our Heavenly Father outside their lanes in the Roman Catholic Church outside their lanes for subliminal Santa Revelation Chapters 1 14 Old Testament

  25. Our Heavenly Father said love thy neighbors and Christ is his son , do you see love in a Thorn Crown that bleeds , where's Mary Thorn Crown.

  26. Our Heavenly Father said he will Judge , so doesn't it make sense to ask the Judge for forgiveness, the Roman's don't dictate policy for mankind.

  27. The Roman's gave out their Roman crucifix crosses and rubbed subliminal Santa Revelation Chapters 1 14 Old Testament on Christians.
    The Roman's wrote hundreds of Bibles with false gods between the scripture mainly psalms including the new Testament blasphemy from Rome outside their lanes in the Roman Catholic Church outside of Christ Covenant.

  28. I am the women born with a veil written in the Old Testament Revelation Chapters with 12 stars upon my head. Only Christ was perfect and he walked across water to share his purpose, how many miles you think Christ walked across water , it's safe to say that Christ was determined about his Covenant , he walked across water to share it

  29. Christ had healing hands and healed many people with loving hands and even a blind man can see the Roman's did not love Christ and heartless Mary who stayed and watched after visiting subliminal Santa Revelation Chapters 14 Old Testament.

  30. No one may claim Our Heavenly Father Holy Temple of Worship as their own not even fallen angels of St Gabriel churches and one bad apple with subliminal Santa. The archangel Gabriel and subliminal Santa kept visiting the Virgin Mary before and after Christ Resurrection. Our Heavenly Father called them false gods in his commandments under his Covenant.

  31. It wasn't Adam and Eve who bit that Apple🍎 from the ones stripped ugly from Glory and alienated👽👾💀in space , some one else bit that Apple

  32. Bind the commandments upon a tablet of your heart , and let not man , angels , hybrid nor beast come between serving Our Heavenly Father on these battle grounds between good and evil

  33. That one eye devil stole 7 stars from my head about his Muhammad and Christ said even the ones who Pierce him will know his Vengeance directly

  34. Christians don't use the crucifix cross on anyone who oppose Roman laws of the Roman's Catholic Church of whom worship Mary. The Roman's would use the crucifix cross on anyone who oppose Roman laws of the Roman's Empire.

  35. Our Heavenly Father said love thy God with all thy strength and do not worship false gods or idols . Mary is not exempt from his laws of commands , she wanted to be worship as a God in the Roman Catholic Church.

  36. How many miles you think Christ walked across water to share his purpose, and left Mary in Rome she never could walk on water. Our Heavenly Father stilled the Sea as Christ walked across it , not one shark in sight.

  37. Our Heavenly Father named his son Messiah before sending him to the Earth. Have you heard that the Messiah is coming , many have.
    the archangel Gabriel and subliminal Santa kept visiting the Virgin Mary and told her to rename the son of God Messiah to born Jesus Christ without authority from Our Heavenly Father. Mary was compromised something like Eve in the Garden of Eden and did not follow a verbal command. She tookside counsel from rotten apples from the forbidden knowledge tree. Our Heavenly Father called them false gods in his commandments.

  38. Our Heavenly Father alienated some of the rebellious angels in space stripped them ugly from Glory 👽👾💀 and it wasn't Adam and Eve who bit that Apple🍎someone else bit that Apple and appear genuis to masses of businesses called forbidden knowledge

  39. I am a conservitive gay man but conservitive DOES NOT equal christian and traditional marriage. It really makes me angry that you would switch around the titles like that to degrade conservitives.

  40. "First of all, God loves you". BEST WAY I'VE EVER HEARD IT PUT. Couldn't have said it better. I couldn't agree more.

  41. I like how people can be so different from each other and still be able to understand one another. Narrow mindedness will hold us back we gotta spread nothing but love and understanding to one another. Shutting down dialog cause feelings got hurt won’t change the problem it’ll keep it the same.

  42. Next topic should be . CAN WE JUST GET ALONG ..

    Crips and bloods .
    MS 13 and 18 street

    And the
    KKK 👻 👻 . VS N.O.I.

  43. Religion can decide to not acknowledge same sex marriage. In the eyes of the law it should be legal in order to provide lgbtq people rights. . .

  44. I wanna know since I’m so confused. What is their business on who we love or who we sleep with as long as we are not harming anyone? If you believe in whatever you want to believe in, that fine but just keep that to yourself and “limit” yourself from these “sins”. And the Christians did not make any sense in many of their answers. For example, when someone wanted to be call “him, he or they” and you wanna sit down and talk to them? Mate, it’s their BUSINESS just call them whatever they want to be call and be respectful.

  45. Every religion says that sticking your dick in another man's bumhole is bad. So yeah. No religion says you should go around poking other men's bumholes.

  46. something i don't understand is why do the lgbtq dress like clowns. i'm not trying to be degrading. radical make up and hair.. body altering, etc..

  47. Blue hair girl: “I believe in science, not a higher power, like gravity is a higher power”
    Has this woman touched a science textbook in her life?

  48. I can't help but think that Middle Ground presents this topic as if having respect for other people (in this case – LGBTQ+ people) is somehow optional and there CAN be a middle ground found.
    You respect me? How the hell do you believe that what I do out of love or what I call a marriage is wrong? There's no respect here as I see it.

  49. As a Christian of course were against lgbtq, but that doesnt mean we shouldnt respect and love them. But as Christians we view it as wrong and as sin.

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