But It Wasn't Real Communism!



if there is evidence a universal basic income can eliminate poverty and is at least superior to welfare would it not be unethical to implement universal basic income that's Emre hi hey ray how you doing good can I just address something on a lie that I feel like you just told a real ei to economics and basic income from the last call from the last like one with just the fridge right because you because about universal basic income you we talked to you said that last ISM have caused the rise of communist rule I don't think I said leftism as close to the rise of communism I think communism is certainly on the left and the rise of leftism would be associated with the rise of communism but I wouldn't say that everyone who's on the Left is directly responsible for the rise of communism the coincidental phenomenon right let me left is the umbrella term and communism is just one of the terms on welfare state and government education and central control of currency and socialism and so on right okay so Kings first agree that there was no attempt at communism or equality in the Soviet Union can just get that out of it like the discovery there was no attempt at one there was no attempt at communism or equality in the Soviet Union are you saying that the Soviet Union was not communist yes that's what I'm saying did the government control the means of production that's not what the definition of communism Oh the definition victim workers control the means of production yes so did the workers control the means of production okay let's just do it that way did the workers control the means of production in the Soviet Union yes or no did that somewhat certainly because they had no committees and they had no workers committee to could vote sorry if you're gonna ask me a question and then immediately start talking when I answer we're going to have a very very short conversation do you understand okay continue thank you don't get upset don't get offended you asked me a question you media to start talking in my ear when I answer it okay continue but I am saying is with with in an authoritarian state already know that everyone go to drive me crazy tonight okay there was some control that the work has had over the means of production in the Soviet Union help though I just explained it okay but you know that people saw mayor you were talking into me okay are you aware that people starve to death in the Soviet Union what do you mean I've done shows on that okay and are you aware that there are people who were up to maybe 300 pounds in the Soviet Union so that there was a huge wealth inequality in a Soviet Union sure so you're saying that the workers with their control over the state they had enough so much control over the state that they somehow decided to start with themselves are you saying that there's nothing in totalitarianism there's nothing in communism that that causes totalitarianism even though every communist country is a totalitarian dictatorship that is completely unrelated it's an ant a massive coincidence okay so but you do understand that some people just lie and say that they're communists when they're not you know how kim jeong-hoon says that north korea is democratic but it's not really democratic at all and everybody knows that so you're saying that everyone who wants in totalitarian control over a country just happens to call themselves communists rather than capitalists that well please tell me fifty to call themselves how many dictators say that they are democratic how many dick how many authoritarian regimes say that they are they are democratic almost every single one so I mean if there are democratic countries that aren't authoritarian regimes there are no communist countries that aren't health health and dictatorships so it's a false equivalency I'm saying that the very definition of socialism and communism is a classless stateless egalitarian society where the workers democratically own the means of production so by definition that by definition those totalitarian countries don't actually count the communism you understand that they do no they do oh yeah this is this general no this is this general theory and practice stuff right actually I can say I can say that so-and-so is a mass murderer and and their definition of mass murdering is to give people vitamin C tablets in winter when they're actually just stabbing people okay or they say well no I'm a mass murderer who stabbed people but my mass murdering is it's actually surgery and you can redefine things and you actually look at the empirical results so my question is when a country has an existing cyst we're the means of production a privately owned right and in some sort of free market equality free market the means of production are privately owned by individuals right they have legal right to the factories that they have created from saving from hard work from investment from inheritance whatever it's going to be they have legal title to the factories that they have created and they have moral title to since assuming it's a relatively free market they did in fact go out and work to create these factories so let's say I have a factory which produces step box I have a nice rack with dying on hang on I have a factory how does it transition to a communist system the world's the first thing we would have to address is who has the right to declare that they own property well it's my factory I built it I created it okay but you it's the first thing that has to be addressed is who has the right to take property who to say this is mine no I didn't take property I don't know if you're not hearing what I'm saying I created the factory maybe I was not from from what resources from my savings from my investment and from paying the people who helped me to build the factory here in exchange of value I'm sorry where did you get those problems from savings well I got my savings from not spending my money on wine women and song but rather putting it under my mattress or in the banks or something okay so there I mean there was a time when there was no real property right like we humans for example with hunter-gatherers there was no real property right of course there was no there was no different times when there was no property when nobody's property no you just said it hunter-gatherer so if I go out and gather berries who is responsible for those berries coming back to their camp well yeah because that those resources are shared amongst that group though it's not a formal you know I can change here the property but but if you go out and hunt you you as you and I go out and hunt we're the ones who brought down the deer right we bring it back now we can choose to share and all of that kind of stuff but saying there was no property like like if you and I go out to hunt and we shoot a deer and then some other group comes and trying to grab the deer and take it away what will we do oh so I can see that so you and I go out and hunt a deer okay and we use a bow and arrow we shoot the deer we kill the deer right and then some other group sometimes our other tribe comes and tries and takes our deer away what are we going to do okay so from my perspective no no what are we going to do tell me what we would do in that movie from my perspective tell me what we would do in that moment in my mind the material universe is come out hang on don't fuck like the material universe you and I look you can pretend that I haven't asked you a question but guess what this is my show if you don't ask my questions I'll just move on to the next caller I mean that's perfectly fine with me I got lots of goal with tonight you and I go out in hunted year we shoot the deer the deer falls down dead and some other tribe some other group tries to grab our deer and take off with it what do we do anyways yeah you was at well you would protect you're hot but I'm just saying so so hang on so soon so it's our deer that's but that's a long way from claiming property as in claim entire land for yourself you know what I mean you said there was no property I just gave you an example of property you can admit that you were Ron or you want to refine a definition but don't just I sell out like I don't say anything I still technically don't consider that property though because that's more I think property has a much more like legal formal usage whereas that's much more of an informal thing that hunter-gatherers did you know what I mean so there's only property now we have a court system Stephen it's the only property if you have a court system I think that it's only property if there is a very strong power enforcing it so if if I in a primitive society if I want to eat your arm you have no right to exercise property control over your arm I can just cut it off and eat it you have the right to self-defense but okay so you can protect your personal property called your own body right okay but this is getting you to sort but um another capitalism type of oh no no you're bringing in buzzwords I'm asking your basic question you have the right to use violence to defend your personal property called your body right um hello okay I support majority rule that's my thing right no no you're not answering my question this is yes or no do you have the right to protect your personal property called your body in other words does a woman have the right to say no to a man who wants to have sex with her my thing is that I support majority rule so okay you can keep repeating that and I'll just keep I'll repeat my question once more and if you don't answer I move on to the next goal they're not being threatening I'm just this is just a reality I'd like to have conversations not to lunch somebody just repeating things like a broken record doesn't woman have the right to say no to a man who wants to have sex with her I'll try to explain my position though which other women have the right were to say no to a man who wants to have sex with her well obviously but I thought okay so so hang on so she went she can she has she has she can exercise control over her personal property called her vagina right well yeah he controls a human of that vagina okay but having control over your own body is not the same as having control over other people's land you know what I mean and you know I don't know what you mean yeah well okay so I have to go over my own body but that doesn't mean I can um heal other people's land that's okay let me ask you let me ask you this let me ask you this if I go and steal something from you well first of all stealing requires the concept of property so I don't know how you're going to evade that one but let's say I come and steal something from you am I responsible for that theft am I responsible for the moral action of stealing from you well okay I the one type of property that I do agree with is the idea of um collective collective okay no no you stop bringing any collective you're not answering my question if I steal something from you am I responsible for the action of stealing well okay but let's possible what what is that though what counts is best and you just said if someone goes and steals someone else's land so you we already understand the concept of fact so if I come and steal something from you am i morally responsible for stealing am I responsible for the Admiral Taylor who stole what first no no no let's just assume that okay let me know if you haven't trouble with this one let's go say that Bob some guy named Bob goes and rapes a woman is he responsible for that rape well yes okay good good okay that's fine so he is bob is responsible for the effects of his actions he owns the effects of his actions right I mean Bob rapes the woman we go and punish Bob because he was the one who raped her so he's responsible for what he creates for what he does to the effects of the actions of his body on the world he owns what he creates now this is as true of a crop that you've planted and watered and grown it is true of an unknown land at you have enclosed and you have taken control of and you have cleared and you have planned you can keep talking I'll just keep talking until I'm done because it's my job again so if you have taken on owned land and you have you've cleared it and you build a house or these things existed didn't exist before you only effects of your actions in a positive sense in the stuff that you create in the same way that you own the effects of your actions in a negative way in terms of crimes that you may commit so okay we all own ourselves and we own the effects of our actions so how much do you owe to the Native Americans as Ricky : I'm sorry so how much is owed to the Native Americans for taking land that belongs to them more nothing why because I didn't take an advance for anyone somebody took that lab and then you acquire that so and they're all dead no you see if I said how much how much did the Indians how much how much did the Indians how much did the Indians owe to each other for enslaving each other okay let's how much did the Indians owe to each other for initiating wars and genocides against each other can I make a point so if I feel a painting from you and I give that painting to my child when I die is that people belong to my child if you steal a painting from me yes and then you die I die I gave the pink right so and my child inherited that painting from me right she didn't feel a painting from you but he inherited that painting from me so who does that painting belong to you does it song to my kids now or does it belong to you but stealing is illegal ah see there we go there we go but it's not working I'll talk about that so land was stolen from the Native Americans I don't know sorry how was it stolen they were nomads they weren't mostly farmers right they were nomads how was it so well I believe in collected that's why I said I believe in human collective ownership over the land so the native collectively owned that area and that was it was their choice of debt to a bought property the way they wanted to right as they say okay well let's not really talk about no but they didn't respect hang on but they didn't respect each other's property rights they regularly waged war and enslaved people they found exercise hang on hang on hang on man for God today one more interruption one more interruption one more interruption I'm moving on okay it's your choice I'm exercising control over the property of my time in my ear go ahead okay thanks you keep saying go ahead like I'm being irrational but you keep yammering into my ear while I'm trying to make a point glad the natives in North America did not respect each other's property rights at all they raided they took people as slaves they killed if they found pizza like 500 bodies thrown in with their skulls tortured and crushed and maimed and they raped and they so they didn't they didn't respect each other's property rights but somehow Westerners who come over and actually offer value for in return for the property and enter into contracts and enter into treaties will someone who knows all right oh okay we're moving on thanks very much for your call I appreciate that but I'm going to have to stick to my word let's move on to the next goal you




Comments
  1. While I agree that communism is crap, you are abusing your position of power in this call. You continuously threaten to drop him from the call when he's trying to expand upon his position, and forcing him entirely into a corner to JUST answer your questions. That isn't really a dialogue and you're also being very dismissive.
    And no, I'm not a commie; I hate it just as much when the leftist loonies host a show and can't refrain from dismissing a RW guest as a racist/sexist/homophone without allowing them to expand upon their viewpoint like an adult.

  2. Why is it so hard to arrive at first principles with some people? I've known many people like this, who can't answer a single question without saying "but", if they answer it at all…

  3. Stephan makes me chuckle with his sassy ness. I’d love to call in some time. I don’t think the guy in the video is getting the metaphors which really should help him understand at a base level :,). Fucking hell.

  4. Dear god I find your patience in dealing with these complete idiots a thing to behold to say the least.
    My god I would be boiling with anger merely thinking of all the holes in their arguments as they spew them

  5. He really likes to ignore questions. I mean its so simple, all he needs to say ether 2 words. THEN explain his side.

  6. I understand both the points you two are trying to make, but stefan, but im not quite sure you get his point. he never really gets to express his point because you keep arguing semantics in the context of communism that your using not in the other context of communism.

    Im no expert on history or communism but if you take the ism out you get commune
    "a group of people living together and sharing possessions and responsibilities."
    I believe communism came from the idea of the hunter / gatherer society being modified for use in the modern day. theres nothing inherently wrong with communism or socialism in concept, the root cause of the issues with those systems isnt within the system its self, the problem is human nature, not all people are good people, there are horrible people out there who live only for themselves and will step and every single person in their path.
    the reason capitalism and democracy work so well is because those systems were built to combat the nature of these individuals who will inevitably abuse the systems in place to gain power and force others to suffer for it.
    communism and socialism are in theory perfect systems, but they're systems built to work with good people, and obviously not all people are good, which is why no true communist government can ever exist. communism / socialism and governments are mutually exclusive. these systems DO WORK, but only in small controlled groups, there are groups like this even in the USA
    https://www.twinoaks.org
    this is a communist group within america, and it works.

  7. Did the workers have control over the means of production? Of course not! In the USSR, factories, farms and other means were under strict control of the bureaucrats. They decided what and how much should be produced, which caused a lack of innovation and low productivity.

    It was Gorbachev who tried to give some control to the workers for better production, but didn't work either. The centralized planned economy is doomed to fail.

  8. Just bugger off to Venezuela you irritable commie, just go comrade, don't whine anymore, just go and live in the utopia, do leave ur passport behind on the way out though.

  9. Okay I will be completely honest here, I did not watch this whole video. Only because the guy whom (I'm gessing) is on a call with you is getting me angry. I do believe that there was no real communistic government that have been practiced as it says in communist manifesto. But I would love to have a debate myself about this topic, if you are interested as well please let me know. Or anyone who reads this comment and wishes for a good debate on this topic hmu

  10. bro this kid on the phone is so fucking annoying. he's like that little white bitch with the glasses from the polar express

  11. But it was in fact real communism because the only way all citizens can be "equal" and the means of production and resources redistributed amongst the people is if it's done by force of a larger entity, I.e. government. For example if I buy a nice 4 bed house by putting down a deposit and taking out a mortgage which I have to pay off through my own blood sweat and tears am I going to willingly give it up so that it can be given to some other family that hasn't saved up for a deposit and loan on their own house and in exchange be given a 2 bed by the government? I don't think so. Furthermore, once the system is in place, that same government needs to maintain the social and economic order again though force and indoctrination of the people or 'inequalities' (people trying to get what they want) will start to reemerge. So yes real communism is apparent in all countries which practice it, except China, which frankly is its own special case of ugly.

  12. (Having control over your own body is different than having control over other peoples land).
    Others people’s land? I thought you just said there was no property? How can it be other people’s land if there is no such thing as property?

  13. Communism is a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production. Yes, USSR, China, Cuba were all Communist countries.

  14. If there's no property, how can it be "other people's land"?
    And if this idiots support the "majority", if the majority wants to rape a girl, then it's ok?
    What an ignorant fuck this "communist" kid is.
    Impossible to have a real conversation with this crazy bastards.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *