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  1. Apologies for reawakening any old wounds but may I weigh in;

    Is the WHOLE issue here not more to do with Supply & Demand?

    I, the business owner have the means to satisfy the demand, I merely lack the labour. The labour HAS the labour but lacks the means. Thus an agreement is made.

    If the Means & Labour agreement is fruitful, profit is made, and the Means will infer Profit on the Initial Investor & reinvestment, as well as hopefully some form of raise/bonus to the Labour.

    If the Means is unsatisfied then the whole business is progressing with an impediment.

    If the Labour feels mistreated, the Quality of Labour will likely falter. Labour is a Sum of Moving Parts and is very easily mismanaged and can disrupt the whole.

    It’s a balance; Means & Labour = Potential Profit.

    Labour essentially needs to know that their labour is valued above other labour, based upon qualitative rather than quantitative results.

    ‘Means’ is the balance between reinvestment and staying at precedent levels.
    “How much do I think our current model outstrips an alternative version using different metrics?”

    Very open to learning better 🙂

  2. I’m a bachelor in the stem field. How could I compete with a worker from India who works for less than I would? Took me 5 years to get a job in my field

  3. We would agree that diversity is a desirable goal. Therefore diversity of intelligence is desired. Therefore it’s desirable to have a broad spectrum of intelligence, from very dumb people to very smart people. So do the smart people steal the resources of the dumb people because they can, because it’s of value to the smart people, because the smart people want to have power over the dumb people? A factory can have a lot of people working, junior managers, senior managers, CEO, CFO, lawyers, and a board of directors. Are the high up managers smarter than the workers? It’s generally true that many of the workers might be just as smart as the CEO, but because of opportunity they are not the CEO. Drive and determination can overcome low intelligence.

  4. Point 1: Communism doesn't seem to care a whole lot about how it started, it looks at the status quo. If you, being in charge of the business, make a profit, that is already considered exploitation because the workers don't get all the money their labor has earned them: they are denied part of fruits of their labor. Communism considers this immoral. It wants the CEO position in a businesses replaced with the workers themselves, so they democratically decide what to produce etc. Produced value is not repaid in currency, but instead gains value because it is produced – the labor itself is the value added to the product.

    At least half of this conversation was semantics about things that would still differ per country.

  5. Isn't it funny over all the years people have tried to implement Marxism they have yet to refine it they can't even f**** explain it. They get all tongue-tied not to mention it's usually young people who believed in it have yet to find a sixty-year- old Marxist

  6. The only problem I see with Anarchy in general: how do we ensure the rights/property of individuals? It seems highly probable that the largest/most powerful street gang could quickly become the new state… Well, maybe we have a problem with something like that in a community, so we pool our resources into a private police force. But, how quickly does that become the state?

    It seems to me the best way for a state to exist in a free society is to give absolute minimum pay, and keep the role of said state extremely small. Protect the rights/property of the people. Nothing more.

  7. In his scenario, why the fuck would anyone ever start a business then?
    As soon as my "invested" labor is made back I would lose everything. There would be no incentive.

    And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why communists are retarded.

  8. No it's not a loan to the workers. There is no inherent benefit to the workers of you reinvesting in your own company you are simply increasing your profit margin by increasing productivity. And no you are not continuing to put in this massive unpayable amount you will at this point be no more than an invested you should get a return on your income. You are reinvesting to compete not because your workers proposition you to reinvest at no benefit to themselves they can go on to work for your competitors if you decide to be dumb enough to embezzle.

  9. I always wonder why there are intelligent honest marxists. The theory is flawed to an unbelievable extent both psychologically and enonomically. Marxism is evil or delusional or both.

  10. Stefan is saying that initial risk = net profit for all time. At no point is the employee worth more than the agreed salary. I think Stefan dodged Kevin's key point, which is a shame.

  11. So what he would like is… to have a hand on the profit of the company he's working for if it's succesful… I wonder if he would like to have some kind of ownership over the debt if the company goes bankrupt. Nah, he would probably tell the owner of the company to go f**k himself, and just walk away with no consequences. I find there is a lot of similarities between that kind of behavior and that of a parasite.

  12. You're so funny Stefan! You pretend that you're trying to understand but you don’t even try! As if you're preparing something in your mind to answer him, wow! Ok you got him, you won! It’s very easy to find out why you don't listen, if you really get the point of his speech you can't continue this show. You should end it up here. If you really want to understand what value is, go and open the Marx's capital book, first volume, chapter 01, then he gives it to you buddy. You liberals are going to understand soon! In fact we make you understand.

  13. People like this need to be forced to start their own business so they can try to implement their ideology and see how when put into practice it does not work. We are human we need incentive to take on risk and work hard. I have worked jobs that pay piece rate and so your salary was dictated by your Innovation and work ethic. I was one of their top performers Management in their Infinite Wisdom saw how much some of the top performers were making and they resented us even though we were working 15 plus our days to make the great salary. They change the pay scale to hourly I quickly realized that I no longer have any incentive to work as hard as I did I dropped my level of production to match that of the average worker because our hourly salary was the same. Management noticed and called me into the office and ask me why my level of production had dropped off so sharply. Easy you change the pay scale pay me hourly and you put the same value on me as your regular employees and I put out three to four times the production if you want the same level of production I used to do put me back on piece rate I have no intention of changing you take away the incentive you lose your top performers

  14. Ask the caller why he [nor anyone else who believes this BS] has never started a business and done what he is saying is fair – at a point where the workers have supposedly paid their 'fair share' of the business, give them all equal shares. If this is how it should be done, and those on the Left believe in this, how come none of them ever do it? That's really the only question that needs to be asked, and the only explanation any of these people deserve.

  15. Q: What's stopping communists getting together and buying up a business, and running it 'collectively'? ie 'communism' within the free market? Pretend that 'taxes' and 'laws' are directives from some politburo?

  16. You could skip to about 45 mins in. Stef goes on a rant hitting on the point they’re just dancing around for the first 45 mins or so. It’s essentially “if there’s no expectation of profit beyond what’s put into acquiring the profit, why would I ever do that?”

  17. It would be odd telling someone who is about to begin a business "if this is successful, we're going to make sure you don't do too well. Once you reach a certain point, you must slink back into the average."

  18. This guy was so painful to listen to. He just can’t get his head around how a business works. Wake up man. The way you are suggesting we do business will go absolutely nowhere. There would be no incentive for anyone to innovate or expand. Unless starving to death sounds like a great time to you I would suggest adopting a different way of looking at things.

  19. Years ago there was a thing called "Junior Achievement" an extracurricular activity for high school kids to learn how a productive business works. They need to bring that back to teach these kids how to be productive and learn the meaning of work. I've been an employee and I want nothing to do with the inner workings of payroll, purchasing, legal issues, sales, quality control etc.. I just want to put in a good days work, honestly, punch the clock and go home to my family. And I am thankful for a paycheck!

  20. Fruit without labor. Often I find communists in the west are usually poor consumers or well paid intellectuals. They spend on frivolous items and complain about how necessities are expensive. Or they buy overpriced goods because they are too stupid to research and buy better quality and value products. They all imagine themselves as the new ruling class, the same corrupt ones in our current society. They want to be party members, punishing others and doing imaginary labor to get something from the actual workers. This caller does not understand that the higher levels of a business don't "do nothing" and sit and collect a paycheck. This I think is where the commie has trouble understanding.

    I build house with my own labor/initial investment.
    People come in and share in the budding profits that only happen because of that initial investment. If the business is overbudget/not profitable it will cut workers. Without those roots the branches don't exist. Business that do not do this FAIL.

    Who has more stake in this house? THE GUY WHO BUILT IT. Damn commie thinks the big business just came out of nowhere.

     I do think out current system is corrupt, much due to the fault of socialism- govt causing imbalances and unfair advantages to certain companies that in turn prevents competition. Many laws, fees, and govt approval are designed to prevent competition. There is where the issue in our system lies.

    Unfortunately commies are either low IQ and don't see how their system simply does not work or they know and are simply denying their hypocrisy like a person with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.The hilarity in the caller saying the capitalist system is unfeasible in the long run. No communist nation has even last more than two generations. We have people alive that have seen communism rise and fall. At least none that actually follow the communist economic system.

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